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re: How important was Kiffin sharing Alabama's shadow staff binder on LSU
Posted on 7/27/20 at 12:03 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Posted on 7/27/20 at 12:03 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
quote:
I believe the "check with me" touchdown over Stingley was a result of Alabama's shadow staff discovering LSU DBs would look at the bench when there was a perceived audible.
THIS is absolutely on point. 100% true
0
Posted on 7/27/20 at 6:03 am to kennesawlsu
quote:
Yep, they figured out our secrets. 1st down-LF/GUICE right. 2nd down-LF/GUICE left, 3rd down-screen to LF/GUICE, 4th down-PUNT and play Def (best strategy).
No, no, no! You left out the play-action, Lthrow it down the field and hope” play inserted on no particular down.
Saban probably thought like Bobby Knight, “I looked across the field and saw Miles and I knew we’d be alright”.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 6:46 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
What is a shaddowstaff?
Posted on 7/27/20 at 8:36 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
how common are shadow staffs outside of the SEC?
Posted on 7/27/20 at 8:38 am to ItTakesAThief
quote:
All we ever needed was a competent Offensive Scheme that was not predictable in play calling and from formations.
...and the best offensive line in 20 years, and five - YES, FIVE - first round draft choices at the skilled positions.
This was the most talented LSU offense in history. It was not all due to coaching changes. A better offensive scheme might have improved things a bit, but we would still have been dominated by BAMA.
There were a couple of seasons toward the end of Miles' stint in which we were playing two defensive tackles who were a true freshmen and a true sophomore - and they had nothing behind them for depth.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 8:49 am to kennesawlsu
quote:
Yep, they figured out our secrets. 1st down-LF/GUICE right. 2nd down-LF/GUICE left, 3rd down-screen to LF/GUICE, 4th down-PUNT and play Def (best strategy).
You are wrong. We were never predictable insofar as what play we were going to run. It was a good bet that loading the box, at the snap, was a good gamble, but that's the best other teams could do. Bama seemed to know the play. That's probably because their giant shadow staff did so much scouting that they knew the little things that LSU was doing to tip the play. I'm talking about things like personnel changes, subtle alignment changes, maybe even things happening on the sidelines.
Even in 2019, Bama had two plays in which #15 blitzed right into a handoff over left guard. We succeeded because CEH spun that frigger dizzy, but Bama had the play sniffed. Another case of talent beating Bama's scouting: the famous fingertip grab by Clyde when he beat #7 up the sidelines on third down. Bama had that play smoked out and perfectly defended; Clyde just beat them.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 9:35 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Copying successful coaches is nothing new. It’s been going on forever.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 9:36 am to chity
quote:
There was a ex-Bama player who was/is in the pros a few years ago who said they knew what LSU was going to do on almost every play.
That was against a Les Miles offense. Different world now.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 12:47 pm to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
I'm sure it was the basis for the success of 2019.
Telling sign was when J.Burrow said something about knowing what was going to happen on the field before it happened because of the analyses done by the shadow staff.
...and then again, maybe it was someone else that said that.
Telling sign was when J.Burrow said something about knowing what was going to happen on the field before it happened because of the analyses done by the shadow staff.
...and then again, maybe it was someone else that said that.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 3:17 pm to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
I don't think it is or was a secret that Alabama was using analysists to advance scout teams weeks in advance of playing them. Miles knew this but never asked. Bama always had the max allowed. O implemented this as quickly as he could. Fact of the matter is teams with anaylysists break down teams weeks before the game and give the coaches that iformation in advance when they start putting together game plans. LSU was not using them under Miles and was waiting until game week to really get into the next opponent.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 6:25 am to Strannix
quote:
Everyone knew the offense, there were about 7 plays
Oh, it was worse than that. Les only ran about seven plays in games. They wasted plenty of practice time on plays Les was never going to run.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 6:57 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Is a shadow staff similar to a deep state?? A cabal?? Just wondering.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 7:02 am to Yeti_Chaser
quote:
how common are shadow staffs outside of the SEC?
I think all of the big boys have them to some extent. It’s just a question of how far you go.
I’m all about doing what needs to be done to compete. But I hate what the sport has become over the past 20 years or so, and a lot of it revolves around Saban. He was at the forefront of the realization that you can buy a competitive edge. First with facilities for recruiting, then with staff.
If you’re at one of the schools with a seemingly unlimited athletic budget (Bama, LSU, OSU, etc.) you can quite literally outwork opposing coaching staffs. Not necessarily by being smarter or working harder, mind you - instead, you do it by putting an absurd number of man-hours into film study.
And it’s not just game prep. These analysts are also breaking down plays and formations in-game. They can’t be on-field “coaches” interacting with players, but there’s nothing that says they can’t feed information to the coaching staff. Look no further than Saban’s opposition to the new restrictions on number of head sets teams can use during games.
Again, I’m all about LSU doing what needs to be done to win. But it does feel like schools without big money are at a larger disadvantage every year.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 9:52 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Great Post. And to answer your question it was Huge. Big advantage for the gumps and its a significant piece to their decline.
Under Miles, regardless of what most want to believe, LSU had a very sophisticated run game. Thats why teams couldnt stop it even tho LSU couldnt complete a forward pass. Even the gumps couldnt stop it until they hired all these staffers.
These computer geeks' job was to analyze each and every scenario LSU's offense had, even going back several years.
If #72 right hand is in a fist and if its 3rd and 5 or more 83% of the time they run a draw or screen.
If the RB #21 never moves his head side to side and is in the I.....
On 2nd and 4-6 yards they run the ball 72% of the time and if the TE is off the LOS 81% of the time to his side etc.
Under Miles, regardless of what most want to believe, LSU had a very sophisticated run game. Thats why teams couldnt stop it even tho LSU couldnt complete a forward pass. Even the gumps couldnt stop it until they hired all these staffers.
These computer geeks' job was to analyze each and every scenario LSU's offense had, even going back several years.
If #72 right hand is in a fist and if its 3rd and 5 or more 83% of the time they run a draw or screen.
If the RB #21 never moves his head side to side and is in the I.....
On 2nd and 4-6 yards they run the ball 72% of the time and if the TE is off the LOS 81% of the time to his side etc.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 10:13 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
I loved Coach Miles, but one place he really appeared to fail was Sun Tzu's famous dictate: Know Your Enemy.
Superior intelligence is a game changer that can give an out-manned team a fighting chance against a more powerful opponent.
In this knowledge transfer, LSU complied with that edict by learning what Bama was doing. Coach O investing in a 2 shop for LSU transformed the Tigers into an entity which embraced the great rule.
The importance of this second part cannot be overstated. It was a strategic policy, not an in game adjustment or a quick-fix, but an operational commitment to never again go into battle blind and half-arse prepared.
Superior intelligence is a game changer that can give an out-manned team a fighting chance against a more powerful opponent.
In this knowledge transfer, LSU complied with that edict by learning what Bama was doing. Coach O investing in a 2 shop for LSU transformed the Tigers into an entity which embraced the great rule.
The importance of this second part cannot be overstated. It was a strategic policy, not an in game adjustment or a quick-fix, but an operational commitment to never again go into battle blind and half-arse prepared.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 10:54 am to Woodreaux
quote:
In this knowledge transfer, LSU complied with that edict by learning what Bama was doing.
As importantly, they learned what they were doing. They self-scouted and were able to create tendencies and then break them at opportune moments to catch the enemy off guard.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 11:49 am to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
LSU had one of the greatest offenses college football has ever seen with one of the greatest college quarterbacks college football has ever seen throwing to perhaps one of the finest receiving group college football has ever seen.
Not much more Analysis needs to be said about what went on last year on the offense of side of the ball for LSU.
Not much more Analysis needs to be said about what went on last year on the offense of side of the ball for LSU.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 12:20 pm to Lonnie4LSU
If I remember correctly, Kiffin told Coach O that Saban's staffers were breaking down LSU & AU in the Spring & summer before the season started. Having the number of staffers to do that was a huge advantage. I detest Joe Alleva but he did give Coach O the money he needed to bring in an equivalent number of staffers.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 8:42 pm to AlwaysPutsSeatDown
quote:
Alabama's shadow staff
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