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re: How important was Kiffin sharing Alabama's shadow staff binder on LSU

Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:36 pm to
Posted by boudinman
Member since Nov 2019
6101 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:36 pm to
So important it can't be overstated. The support staff allowed the OC and DC more on the field coaching time with players rather themselves being in the film room breaking down opponent's game film.
Posted by AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Member since May 2008
1062 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:56 pm to
Not just LSU, but all opponents.
Posted by TeamLSU
Member since Feb 2009
3729 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 4:11 pm to
quote:

Not just LSU, but all opponents.



You lost me here. What are you asking or stating?
Posted by GetmorewithLes
UK Basketball Fan
Member since Jan 2011
22947 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 4:18 pm to
quote:

Supposedly, O saw the detail that Alabama's shadow staff was producing. Supposedly Alabama knew tendencies about LSU that even the LSU staff did not know!!!


The magnitude and depth of Bama's non coaching staff has not been any big secret. Early on in Orgeron's tenure he prioritized building a war team like Nick has. I think the results have been pretty positive.

I remember seeing interviews with Bama players with them basically saying they knew what their opponents were going to do quite often due to "tells" and then they showed some of them on film room. I did not think that was too bright of them to give away their edge.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
88509 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 4:27 pm to
This was definitely important but the shadow staff wasn’t a secret beforehand.
Posted by AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Member since May 2008
1062 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 4:47 pm to
What I was stating is that Alabama does enormous research on all opponents. Not just LSU. And like you said the shadow staffs are key For success
Posted by tomato patch
Member since Apr 2019
652 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 5:09 pm to
Thanks coach Kiffin
Posted by reauxl tigers
Tiger Woods Fan
Member since Aug 2014
10157 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 5:22 pm to
I just became a HUGE Lane Kiffin fan.
Posted by TeamLSU
Member since Feb 2009
3729 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 6:05 pm to
quote:

What I was stating is that Alabama does enormous research on all opponents. Not just LSU. And like you said the shadow staffs are key For success



Yes, with a full shadow staff, LSU has a full scouting report on each opponent before the season even starts. Before Kiffin gave Coach O the details, LSU was putting in the game plan for the week's opponent basically mid week, valuable time was wasted, while Bama staff had all info on LSU and was breaking down their tendencies on a Sunday, LSU was doing that same thing, except it took place on Wednesday.

Now that Coach O has leveled the playing field, "We Comin".
Posted by chity
Chicago, Il
Member since Dec 2008
6794 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 6:11 pm to
There was a ex-Bama player who was/is in the pros a few years ago who said they knew what LSU was going to do on almost every play.
Posted by BayouCowboy
Member since Dec 2012
16712 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 6:39 pm to
Here you go:

The Advocate

quote:

Maybe you remember how before the 2018 season, Orgeron requested that the analyst staff size be nearly doubled after an unnamed Alabama staffer sent him a scouting report that showed just how far behind the Tigers were.

"I was embarrassed to see the detail of which (Alabama) scouted on us," Orgeron said in August. "To see the things they had on us, I felt like I wasn't giving our team a chance to win."

And so, Orgeron was cleared to hire coaches like Coyle, and LSU expanded from five analysts in 2016 to 10 in 2018.

"It wasn't just something that we were trying to keep up with the Joneses, so to speak," said Coyle, who became the head coach of the Atlanta Legends in the start-up Alliance of American Football after less than a season at LSU. "(Orgeron) wanted guys to go in there and roll up their sleeves and be effective contributors to the staff. We got along so good, a bunch of guys that took the approach that there was nothing too small, too big, that we could do to help the team."


quote:

"Let's say for example, I was looking at third downs — just the basic information of what a team did on third down," said Coyle, who left LSU in October (though the bulk of his work was done before the season). "I'm figuring out what they want to do against man-to-man (coverage), certain zone (coverage, and also) 'This is what the quarterback does best'; 'He really struggles when you bring pressure, so we may want to be more aggressive in this game.' "

By the end of the summer, the analysts had prepared entire books of data for every LSU game, including the season opener against Miami — a 33-17 LSU win.

"I think we knew Miami better than they knew themselves," Coyle said. "We became the experts of what the opponent was doing."


The shadow staffs maximize your ability to game plan your opponent. Bama and Ohio St have historically had the largest staffs. I wouldn't be surprised if Clemson does now as well. Great coaches build great staffs and great staffs make good coaches great.
Posted by EvrybodysAllAmerican
Member since Apr 2013
12837 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 6:55 pm to
quote:

Bama knew more about LSU offense than the LSU coaches did and their tendencies.


LSU’s tendencies were obvious to everyone with a pulse during the end of the Miles era. You could literally predict the play based on the personnel and formation a good percentage of the time.
This post was edited on 7/26/20 at 6:57 pm
Posted by eltigre2
The Woodlands, Tx
Member since Feb 2019
643 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 7:32 pm to
Where is your proof Kiffin gave him anything? I like a little mire than your “understanding”.
Posted by AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Member since May 2008
1062 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 8:07 pm to
A friend of a friend swore to me...
Posted by Nobelium
Member since May 2018
865 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 8:25 pm to
.
This post was edited on 4/23/21 at 2:14 pm
Posted by Tigers0891
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2017
7157 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 8:27 pm to
Until last year, you didn't need a shadow staff to figure out what play was being dialed up.
Posted by Woolfman_8
Old Metairie
Member since Oct 2018
2072 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 8:35 pm to
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a shadow staff?
Posted by TeamLSU
Member since Feb 2009
3729 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a shadow staff?




Coaches that are paid to break down the opponents tendencies which takes the burden off the Coordinators. The shawdow staff cannot do gametime coaching. Some refer to them as analyst.
Posted by AlwaysPutsSeatDown
Member since May 2008
1062 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 9:44 pm to
This article explains it pretty well from Athlon Sports

LINK
This post was edited on 7/26/20 at 9:46 pm
Posted by LSUdc
Member since Nov 2011
514 posts
Posted on 7/26/20 at 11:09 pm to
LINK
quote:

It’s a stark contrast compared to previous years when it appeared Alabama knew exactly what LSU was doing and when the Tigers were doing it. As it turns out, it wasn’t just appearance. Alabama coach Nick Saban and his staff, which rivals the size of any Fortune 500 company, knew everything about LSU short of the players’ blood types.

Thanks to former Alabama offensive coordinator and current Florida Atlantic coach Lane Kiffin showing Orgeron one of Alabama’s previous scouting reports on LSU the information gap has been reduced between the two teams. The realization of how outmanned LSU was sprung Orgeron into action, hence the hiring of more analyst in the past year.
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