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Video: How the Cowboys exposed the Saints' biggest weakness - predictability
Posted on 12/10/18 at 9:47 am
Posted on 12/10/18 at 9:47 am
YouTube Link
Long but very thorough and well researched video. The tl;dr summary is that if the Saints don't mix up their strategy on 3rd down (targeting Thomas or Kamara almost exclusively), good teams will be able to replicate the Cowboys' success against our offense.
Watch the highlights from yesterday's game, and you'll see that we again targeted Thomas or Kamara on nearly every third down play.
The bad news is that this third down formula (force Brees to check away from Thomas and spy a corner on Kamara to neutralize his speed) is easy to implement for playoff caliber teams. The good news is that the Saints have enough time to create some new wrinkles before the postseason.
Long but very thorough and well researched video. The tl;dr summary is that if the Saints don't mix up their strategy on 3rd down (targeting Thomas or Kamara almost exclusively), good teams will be able to replicate the Cowboys' success against our offense.
Watch the highlights from yesterday's game, and you'll see that we again targeted Thomas or Kamara on nearly every third down play.
The bad news is that this third down formula (force Brees to check away from Thomas and spy a corner on Kamara to neutralize his speed) is easy to implement for playoff caliber teams. The good news is that the Saints have enough time to create some new wrinkles before the postseason.
12
Posted on 12/10/18 at 9:49 am to deSandman
Quick, somebody send this to Sean!
Posted on 12/10/18 at 9:56 am to deSandman
All you have to do to beat them is shut down their 2 best players! Its that easy!
Dumb
Dumb
Posted on 12/10/18 at 9:59 am to deSandman
quote:
targeting Thomas or Kamara almost exclusively
Not exactly groundbreaking info here
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:00 am to Cosmo
Cowboys used the Sea approach to guarding WRs. Cowboys played their best possible game at home and Saints still had a chance to win at the end.
Cowboys’ margin of error is extremely small. Saints can afford some mistakes especially at home and still win games.
Cowboys’ margin of error is extremely small. Saints can afford some mistakes especially at home and still win games.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:02 am to deSandman
We make a few catches in Dallas that night and we win.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:02 am to notiger1997
This isn't meant to be a negative thread. It's just an outside observation of a proven methodology on stopping the Saints' offense.
Per the video:
Granted, it takes a good defense to pull off, but at least two playoff teams are built for this (Bears & Cowboys).
Per the video:
quote:
Crush the run to set up third and long. Play Dime packages whenever Kamara is on the field. Match up man to man while doubling Brees’s favorite target (Thomas). Bring as much pressure as humanly possible.
Granted, it takes a good defense to pull off, but at least two playoff teams are built for this (Bears & Cowboys).
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:04 am to STEVED00
We also had a lot of third and long’s bc we couldn’t run the ball. And Brees didn’t have time to look for a third option because our oline was getting dominated.
Armstead back makes a huge difference. We should run better on early downs, and Brees has more time. Ginn back is also huge, not only as a third option but he should stretch the D and give thomas and Alvin more room to operate short.
Finally, hopefully trequan can regain his mojo from pre-injury.
Armstead back makes a huge difference. We should run better on early downs, and Brees has more time. Ginn back is also huge, not only as a third option but he should stretch the D and give thomas and Alvin more room to operate short.
Finally, hopefully trequan can regain his mojo from pre-injury.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:08 am to deSandman
quote:
Granted, it takes a good defense to pull off, but at least two playoff teams are built for this (Bears & Cowboys).
The Ravens and Vikings have better defenses, at least before this week and couldn't stop the Saints. People keep ignoring that though.
quote:
Crush the run to set up third and long
Every team tries this every game
quote:
Match up man to man while doubling Brees’s favorite target (Thomas). Bring as much pressure as humanly possible.
This isn't new concept, all teams try this, every now and then it works, especially if O is flat
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:09 am to STEVED00
quote:
Cowboys used the Sea approach to guarding WRs. Cowboys played their best possible game at home and Saints still had a chance to win at the end.
Kris Richard is their DB coach, former Seattle DC
quote:
Cowboys’ margin of error is extremely small. Saints can afford some mistakes especially at home and still win games.
Yep. Same for the Bears. That’s why the Saints are still the NFC favorite. We’re the only team that can win a game with offense or defense
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:15 am to deSandman
I think this problem is even a thing outside of third down really. Our offense runs through Thomas and Kamara and if you have what you need to cover both of them, we are in trouble because no one else on the team is threatening at all offensively.
The cowboys were able to do this like no one else has because their LBs are exceptional and they could cover Kamara in the short field. The Bucs were able to do this somewhat also IMO because of David.
It's a pretty big problem. I don't think it's something we can really solve this season, because we just need young guys to grow / we need to add more weapons. The best bet for us to is to face teams that don't have the ability to shut Kamara down. Need to try and avoid the Cowboys and Bears.
The cowboys were able to do this like no one else has because their LBs are exceptional and they could cover Kamara in the short field. The Bucs were able to do this somewhat also IMO because of David.
It's a pretty big problem. I don't think it's something we can really solve this season, because we just need young guys to grow / we need to add more weapons. The best bet for us to is to face teams that don't have the ability to shut Kamara down. Need to try and avoid the Cowboys and Bears.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:20 am to deSandman
Here's another summary -- bring pressure around the edge while ALSO collapsing the middle of the LOS, thus preventing Brees from being able to step up in the pocket.
The only criticism of Payton as a play caller is that he can get impatient. We saw it yesterday. Tampa took the early lead and was having decent success vs. the run. Sean basically spread everything out and started trying to get the lead back in a hurry by airing it out (including looking for deep shots). Once the blocked punt happened the Saints rediscovered their running game and the Bucs were helpless.
IMO, a big part of Payton's aggressive play calling comes from years of never being able to fully trust the defense. Hopefully, the defense's performance over the last two games will help Sean stay with the run a little longer...even if it sputters early on. The Defense has kept the Saints in the game despite the offense's struggles.
The only criticism of Payton as a play caller is that he can get impatient. We saw it yesterday. Tampa took the early lead and was having decent success vs. the run. Sean basically spread everything out and started trying to get the lead back in a hurry by airing it out (including looking for deep shots). Once the blocked punt happened the Saints rediscovered their running game and the Bucs were helpless.
IMO, a big part of Payton's aggressive play calling comes from years of never being able to fully trust the defense. Hopefully, the defense's performance over the last two games will help Sean stay with the run a little longer...even if it sputters early on. The Defense has kept the Saints in the game despite the offense's struggles.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:24 am to deSandman
meh, ya they had a limited game plan but 3 games in such a short condensed time frame will do that to any team.
the video was interesting though
the video was interesting though
Posted on 12/10/18 at 10:59 am to deSandman
This is one of those things that's alot easier said than done, though. It probably is the right strategy to use against us, but if you don't have the perfect personnel to pull it off, you're going to get torched. The Cowboys didn't actually do anything novel against us, they used the same general strategy the Eagles used, and we absolutely abused them.
Most teams just don't have the defensive talent to pull it off. The only time this will end up being an issue the rest of the season will be in the divisional round when we host the Bears or Cowboys. Their pass rushers getting off a beat slower on the road and Armstead's return should help give our other targets a little more time to get separation, which should be enough for us to overcome those defenses. And if Ginn comes back healthy, that's not a strategy you can really even consider using.
Most teams just don't have the defensive talent to pull it off. The only time this will end up being an issue the rest of the season will be in the divisional round when we host the Bears or Cowboys. Their pass rushers getting off a beat slower on the road and Armstead's return should help give our other targets a little more time to get separation, which should be enough for us to overcome those defenses. And if Ginn comes back healthy, that's not a strategy you can really even consider using.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 11:42 am to deSandman
So I listened to the local Los Angeles sports show this morning (Keyshawn and LZ Granderson) and they were saying the exact same things we were saying after the cowboys loss...
Bears D played the best game of their lives and we still almost won because their offense sucks. Rams ate the cheese and didn't show up prepared. Offensive line played its worst game of the year. We would crush them at home, etc etc.
Thing is, I think we were right to say that about the Cowboys loss last week and I think Rams fans are right to say it about the Bears this week.
Bears D played the best game of their lives and we still almost won because their offense sucks. Rams ate the cheese and didn't show up prepared. Offensive line played its worst game of the year. We would crush them at home, etc etc.
Thing is, I think we were right to say that about the Cowboys loss last week and I think Rams fans are right to say it about the Bears this week.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 12:20 pm to deSandman
I think the Bears D is better than the Cowgirls.
Dallas needs refs to allow them to play physical in the secondary and they’ve been getting away with it. The Bears don’t need that. I also think the Saints can expose the Cowboys’ safeties who aren’t very good. But they also beat us up front with Peat, Warford and Bushrod having bad games. In the rematch we’d have the best LT in football and a pissed off Peat and Warford. Good OL play, much like anyone, makes our offense go. They had an off night so we had an off night
I think Sean will have something for them in the rematch and we’ll match their intensity come playoff time
Dallas needs refs to allow them to play physical in the secondary and they’ve been getting away with it. The Bears don’t need that. I also think the Saints can expose the Cowboys’ safeties who aren’t very good. But they also beat us up front with Peat, Warford and Bushrod having bad games. In the rematch we’d have the best LT in football and a pissed off Peat and Warford. Good OL play, much like anyone, makes our offense go. They had an off night so we had an off night
I think Sean will have something for them in the rematch and we’ll match their intensity come playoff time
Posted on 12/10/18 at 12:24 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:
we need to add more weapons
What if Payton is waiting to use both Ginn and Marshall for the last couple of games/playoffs. Doesn’t matter if someone is draped over Marshall. He can just box them out and catch it anyway. And teams started doubling Thomas and Kamara last year, specifically Minnesota and Carolina in the playoffs and Ginn was able to make them pay.
We just have to hope 2017 Ginn returns and we’ll be fine
Posted on 12/10/18 at 12:40 pm to deSandman
The problem with Dallas was their fast as frick linebackers and that interior D line push.
Posted on 12/10/18 at 12:46 pm to STEVED00
When you do not have a guy like Ginn or better yet a Tyreke Hill out there, it's much easier to use this as a game plan. It is why I do not understand why CSP has not used Tommie Lee in this role. All he has to do is run the route to soften the defense. Does not even have to have the ball thrown to him.
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