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Message
re: Wyoming hunting guide fatally mauled by grizzly bears
Posted on 9/18/18 at 9:39 am to saintsfan1977
Posted on 9/18/18 at 9:39 am to saintsfan1977
I would think you'd have better chances firing 17 9mm's as opposed to 6 of something like a .357mag.
not like it takes long to empty a clip.
not like it takes long to empty a clip.
0
Posted on 9/18/18 at 9:51 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
What's the smallest caliber ammunition that should be carried for bears? I was told a 9mm wouldn't do too much.
Bears have been killed in Ak with 9mm
Posted on 9/18/18 at 11:30 am to WPBTiger
My position is simple, bears,wolves and cougars all suck. There is a reason they were all hunted to the brink of extinction by our forefathers before the early 20th century.
Now please down vote away. lol
Now please down vote away. lol
Posted on 9/18/18 at 11:48 am to saintsfan1977
quote:
But if a bear charges you in the woods from 10yards away, I dont think it matters what caliber you have anymore.
How close will you need to be for a shot to penetrate and kill?
Ten yards may be all you have and you may only have one second to shoot. How many shots can you get off in that time.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 11:50 am to cgrand
quote:not every one that makes a mistake gets mailed to death. These particular bears mailed their last people.
sorry/not sorry...
you do not approach a dead animal on the ground in grizzly country, especially if its been there a while. killing the bears for being bears isnt bringing back the guide who fricked up
I like to exercise my rights at the top of the food chain.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 11:58 am to Nodust
quote:
How close will you need to be for a shot to penetrate and kill?
Ten yards may be all you have and you may only have one second to shoot. How many shots can you get off in that time.
I meant pulling your gun out and firing fast enough. A bear can cover 30ft pretty damn quick. And if you are in thick cover and never see him coming until he is on you, the gun wont matter.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 12:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Ive been doing more hiking in griz country lately and thought about bringing a gun but from what I’ve read bear spray makes me feel more confident. It’s a personal choice everyone has to make and they should read and study as much as possible to make that choice.
US fish and wildlife bulletin.
I’m not saying this is the best advice. Just what I follow. I found a better write up about the study but this is the cliff notes version.
Like I said when going into bear country you have to make your own choices. Bear awareness such as making lots of noise and keeping a really clean camp are most likely the best deterrents.
Nothing is 100%.
US fish and wildlife bulletin.
I’m not saying this is the best advice. Just what I follow. I found a better write up about the study but this is the cliff notes version.
quote:
since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.
Like I said when going into bear country you have to make your own choices. Bear awareness such as making lots of noise and keeping a really clean camp are most likely the best deterrents.
Nothing is 100%.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 12:19 pm to Nodust
quote:
Like I said when going into bear country you have to make your own choices. Bear awareness such as making lots of noise and keeping a really clean camp are most likely the best deterrents.
Nothing is 100%.
Yep. I got lucky one day and spoke with an Olympic NP ranger for am hour about lots of things.
I was specifically inquiring about the High Divide trail. He told me if you wanted to see bears bring a trout rod and help catch invasive rainbow trout and (obviously) cook away from camp by the lake.
he was laughing while telling me this. He's like...it's a guarantee. I've never once carried a gun on me if I had a pack on my back. I've only carried spray but the guarantee made me ask about a handgun. He said I'm perfectly legal to carry but there hasn't been 1 reported attack in the parks history.
As you said, keep a clean camp and be aware and always make noise.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 12:32 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 9/18/18 at 12:57 pm to Nodust
FWIW, pepper spray doesn't always work on dogs and people. Bear spray is no stronger (I think it is actually weaker). The actual spraying is what scares animals. I'd definitely be carrying both, because a pissed off anything isn't gonna be stopped by a little burning
Posted on 9/18/18 at 3:12 pm to rattlebucket
quote:If you put a round in a bear you better be DAMN sure you can kill it before it gets to you because you just turned what is most likely a bluff charge into a life or death fight with an injured grizzly bear. Bear spray is much safer than a firearm in bear altercation and lighter to carry too, there’s a reason that very few backpackers and climbers carry firearms into grizzly country although they spend more time there than anyone else.
He shot a round into the water at 8ft? Nope for me. I wouldve been on center mass there. I’d be so concerned that bear would stalk us going down the river.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 3:21 pm to Hammertime
Thats kind of like going into the projects and expecting peaceful resolutions or confrontations.
Or hiking across the middle east and expecting peaceful solutions to confrontations.
Or hiking across the middle east and expecting peaceful solutions to confrontations.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 3:49 pm to PearlyBaker
quote:
there’s a reason that very few backpackers and climbers carry firearms into grizzly country although they spend more time there than anyone else.
That is not true at all. Most people that live in Grizzly country and hunt, carry a gun when they can. Now they also carry spray.
But the majority of hikers are not gun toting type of folks, so the majority of people that hike and run into bears only carry spray for that reason.
As said, the biggest issues with carrying a gun is that a good percentage of bear charges are bluffs. If you have only a gun, you'll likely turn that bluff into a full charge. That's why most hunting parties will have someone with spray first and a gun as a back up.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 4:02 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
What's the smallest caliber ammunition that should be carried for bears?
This is pretty much the same advice I would give for carrying a pistol for protection against anything dangerous: the heaviest, hardest hitting ammunition you can consistently score hits with in the platform you will have available. There is no such thing as "stopping power" or "knockdown power" - kinetic energy is transferred to the target by the bullet, but you want to create a sufficient wound channel to incapacitate through shock (pain/sensory overload), or failing that, sufficient pain/sensory overload to cause the target to attempt to retreat.
"Blood loss" isn't typically going to help you in the emergent situation with a dangerous predator, although a critical hit to the right blood vessel can substitute for "luck" in certain situations. Ditto for a critical neurological hit.
Bottom line: A handgun is always a compromise compared to a "real" gun (i.e. a shotgun or rifle). If you told me I would have to take 2 or 3 shots with a pistol for my life against a Grizzly at close range, I would want a .44 magnum or bigger. Not because of some mythical properties of the cartridge but because it gives me a better chance with a shot that is less than perfectly placed creating a wound channel or incapacitating hit that gets him home alive.
This post was edited on 9/18/18 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 9/18/18 at 4:04 pm to Bass_Man
quote:
There is a reason they were all hunted to the brink of extinction by our forefathers before the early 20th century.
because the early settlers didn't understand the delicate balance of the ecological food chain and that having predators is as important as anything?
You're an idiot
Posted on 9/18/18 at 4:23 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
If you told me I would have to take 2 or 3 shots with a pistol for my life against a Grizzly at close range, I would want a .44 magnum or bigger.
I'm still of the mind that a Glock 20 with 16 rds of hot 10mm (something like buffalo bore) is a better choice than a revolver. They're easier to shoot and you have many more chances to hit your target.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 4:40 pm to baldona
quote:
That's why most hunting parties will have someone with spray first and a gun as a back up.
Probably best thing is spray and gun backup.
Should also never hike solo in bear territory. Although I am very guilty of this. I take my chances. By day three I smell bad enough no bear would eat me
One main reason for me not hiking with a gun is weight. Over a 100 or so mile hike that brick on your side gets very heavy.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 4:55 pm to AU_251
quote:
because the early settlers didn't understand the delicate balance of the ecological food chain and that having predators is as important as anything?
They should be kept in check. They are protected in most areas of the lower 48. Everytime a state brings up a experimental wolf or bear season the treehuggers come out of the wood work to stop it.
I also very much dislike bears.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 4:56 pm to baldona
quote:It absolutely is true, you notice that I didn’t say hunters right? I have my CCW and stopped carrying while in the backcountry once I realized that everyone but the hunters were carrying bear spray and leaving the sidearms at home.
That is not true at all. Most people that live in Grizzly country and hunt, carry a gun when they can. Now they also carry spray.
Granted that I’m basing this off of personal experiences that I’ve had while backpacking in bear country. So I understand that may be different for others but there’s no denying that bear spray is more effective than firearms in deterring and defending yourself from a bear.
This post was edited on 9/18/18 at 6:47 pm
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