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Message
re: Wyoming hunting guide fatally mauled by grizzly bears
Posted on 9/18/18 at 5:52 pm to PearlyBaker
Posted on 9/18/18 at 5:52 pm to PearlyBaker
quote:
It absolutely is true, you notice that I didn’t say hunters right? I have my CCW and don’t carry while in the backcountry once I realized that everyone but the hunters were carrying bear spray and leaving the sidearms at home. Granted that I’m basing this off of personal experiences that I’ve had while backpacking in bear country. So I understand that may be different for others but there’s no denying that bear spray is more effective than firearms in deterring and defending yourself from a bear.
People are generally poor at risk assessment, bear attacks are very rare, that is why when there is one it is all over the news and internet just as with plane crashes. There are much more dangerous outdoor activities than hiking in bear country without a firearm, hundreds are killed and injured every year in the woods on ATVs, but suggest to a hunter while they are in the middle of discussing the best ammunition for defense against bears that wearing a helmet while on their ATV will greatly mitigate the chance of serious injury and you will just get laughed at.
# OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR
Cause of death ………………… # dead
Cardiovascular disease …….. 856,030
Transportation accidents …. 48,441
Drowning ……………………….. 3,582
Hypothermia ……………………699
West Nile virus ……………….. 119
Hornet/bee/wasp stings ….. 48.5
Snake bites …………………….. 5.2
Bear attacks …………….. 2
This post was edited on 9/18/18 at 5:53 pm
2
Posted on 9/18/18 at 6:18 pm to PearlyBaker
quote:
It absolutely is true, you notice that I didn’t say hunters right? I have my CCW and don’t carry while in the backcountry once I realized that everyone but the hunters were carrying bear spray and leaving the sidearms at home.
You missed my point. I agree the vast majority of people use bear spray. But I'm saying its a heck of a lot easier for some lib from San Fransisco to buy a $30 can of bear spray than it is to buy a $800 .44 mag, practice, and carry it and use it properly.
As said, bear spray is also a lot lighter and easier to deploy for an amateur.
The vast majority of people that hike don't own a good bear gun, so they therefore use bear spray. I wasn't saying hunters when they hunt. I'm saying people that do own a decent gun for bear protection, almost always bring it if its handy especially if they are local.
I have a .44 mag and I just got back from Jackson hole. I carried bear spray because I was with my wife and kids and left my .44 mag at home because we weren't going to do any big hiking away from lots of people. If we were I would have absolutely brought my gun.
I'm simply saying that going by the average hiker from California that you see in Grizzly bear country in the lower 48 is not really the best way to say "what's the best thing". Best and most convenient are two different things.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 6:29 pm to baldona
I didn’t miss your point at all, I’m saying from my experience that the people who spend the most time in the backcountry don’t usually carry firearms because they are unnecessary weight and are less effective than bear spray. This is not an attack on guns, I just believe in having the right tool for the job.
quote:Absolutely, it’s easier for anyone to use bear spray properly. I think the easier to use, more effective tool is the best for the majority of people. Do you think that the average out of shape hunter from the flat lands who puts 100 rounds a year through his .44 will be able to effectively take down a charging Grizzly at close range? I think he like most other people would be better off with bear spray but it’s a personal decision and you are allowed to carry whatever makes you comfortable.
But I'm saying its a heck of a lot easier for some lib from San Fransisco to buy a $30 can of bear spray than it is to buy a $800 .44 mag, practice, and carry it and use it properly
This post was edited on 9/18/18 at 6:41 pm
Posted on 9/18/18 at 6:41 pm to PearlyBaker
A hunter will be more likely to pack a pistol in the back country becasue they may be dealing with a bloody, dead animal. A hiker won’t attrack as much attention from bears.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 7:20 pm to EA6B
quote:
bear attacks are very rare
They are, however bluff charges are very common and it's impossible to tell the real thing from the bluff most of the time
Posted on 9/18/18 at 7:28 pm to Nodust
I went solo hiking today and ran into a black bear...
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:53 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Did you happen to ask him which he disliked more between a high powered pistol or bear spray? He could have settled this debate for us.
Posted on 9/19/18 at 9:00 am to DownSouthJukin
I'll email him. He wasn't in a chatty mood, looked like he was protecting a kill
Posted on 9/19/18 at 9:02 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I'll email him. He wasn't in a chatty mood, looked like he was protecting a kill
FFS, it was a black bear, Roger, not any sort of dangerous brown bear.
What would he have done if you'd pressed the issue? Unfriended you?
Posted on 9/19/18 at 9:10 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
FFS, it was a black bear, Roger, not any sort of dangerous brown bear.
Those cute little fellers have killed a couple of people here in AK the past two years.
I've got him blocked on Facebook anyway
Posted on 9/19/18 at 9:44 am to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 9/19/18 at 10:59 am to EA6B
quote:
Cause of death ………………… # dead Cardiovascular disease …….. 856,030 Transportation accidents …. 48,441 Drowning ……………………….. 3,582 Hypothermia ……………………699 West Nile virus ……………….. 119 Hornet/bee/wasp stings ….. 48.5 Snake bites …………………….. 5.2 Bear attacks …………….. 2
You realize of course that the #/year based on merely population of the US is a poor indication of relative risk right?
Posted on 9/19/18 at 11:34 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Those cute little fellers have killed a couple of people here in AK the past two years.
i have an uncle near wasilla, he's been there since 1970. i showed him some black bear pix from game cameras at my dads place in the ozarks...he stood straight up, and said "see that big one there?...shoot it it, immediately!"
i asked him what the deal was, he told me in alaska the brown bears want you hurt/dead but the black bears want you for dinner
Posted on 9/19/18 at 12:24 pm to cgrand
quote:
but the black bears want you for dinner
Luckily around my parts the bears are very skittish and want nothing to do with us.
I've still only seen 2 bears in Oregon, mama and cub crossing a logging road.
Yet, my buddy has game cams all over the same area and constantly has bears, cougar, and bobcats being recorded.
One of his coolest videos is mama bear and 3 cubs. Last 1 was frolicking etc following the group
Posted on 9/19/18 at 1:20 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
You realize of course that the #/year based on merely population of the US is a poor indication of relative risk right?
Since the year 1900, or 118 years, there have been a total of 85 people killed by black, brown, and polar bears in North America, meaning lower 48 states, Alaska , and Canada. There is probably no cause of death in the outdoors that occurs with less frequency, that is the epitome of low risk.
Posted on 9/19/18 at 2:26 pm to EA6B
quote:
There is probably no cause of death in the outdoors that occurs with less frequency, that is the epitome of low risk.
What he’s saying is you can’t compare car accidents and cardiovascular issues to bear attacks. There’s 300 mil Americans and everyone can die from the former 2, while a very small portion of the population realistically could die from a bear attack.
I’d bet if you took the amount of people that hike in Yellowstone to the bear attacks there, compared to the amount of people that die from cardiovascular disease your chance of getting attacked by a bear and dying while you are in Yellowstone is actually higher. Or at least very close.
More people may die of shark attacks in the world than a bear attack, but if you live in Wyoming or Alaska your chance of getting attacked by a bear is a little greater.
This post was edited on 9/19/18 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 9/19/18 at 3:06 pm to baldona
quote:
I’d bet if you took the amount of people that hike in Yellowstone to the bear attacks there, compared to the amount of people that die from cardiovascular disease your chance of getting attacked by a bear and dying while you are in Yellowstone is actually higher. Or at least very close.
There is no way you really believe this
Posted on 9/19/18 at 3:51 pm to jchamil
there have been about 100 deaths in YSNP since it opened in 1872. by far the most common cause is fatal burns suffered in various geothermal features
SOURCE
quote:
Since 1980, over 100 million people have visited Yellowstone. During this time, 38 people were injured by grizzly bears in the park. For all park visitors combined, the chances of being injured by a grizzly bear are approximately 1 in 2.7 million. The risk is significantly lower for people who don't leave developed areas or roadsides, and higher for anyone hiking in the backcountry.
Type of Recreational Activity: Risk of Grizzly Bear Attack
Remain in developed areas, roadsides, and boardwalks: 1 in 25.1 million visits
Camp in roadside campgrounds: 1 in 22.8 million overnight stays
Camp in the backcountry: 1 in 1.4 million overnight stays
Travel in the backcountry: 1 in 232,000 person travel days
All park activities combined: 1 in 2.7 million visits
quote:
Grizzly bear-inflicted injuries to humans in developed areas averaged approximately one per year during the 1930s through the 1950s, and four per year during the 1960s. Grizzly bear-caused human injuries in developed areas then decreased to one injury every two years (0.5/year) during the 1970s. Since 1980, there have been only two (0.1/year) grizzly bear-caused human injuries in developed areas, an average of approximately one every 18 years. Over the same time span, there have been 34 human injuries caused by grizzly bears in the backcountry: an average of one per year.
quote:
Since Yellowstone was established in 1872, eight people have been killed by bears in the park. More people in the park have died from drowning, burns (after falling into hot springs), and suicide than have been killed by bears. To put it in perspective, the probability of being killed by a bear in the park (8 incidents) is only slightly higher than the probability of being killed by a falling tree (6 incidents), in an avalanche (6 incidents), or being struck and killed by lightning (5 incidents).
SOURCE
Posted on 9/19/18 at 4:04 pm to jchamil
quote:
There is no way you really believe this
What are my chances as a healthy male in my 30s of dying from cardiovascular disease on a daily basis? Now if I hike in the back country, what are my chances of dying from a grizzly attack?
If you never swim in the ocean you'll never die from a shark attack and if you never play the lottery you will never win the lottery.
I'm saying you can't take statistics from a daily population of 325 million people and compare it to an activity that occurs a couple days a year in a specific area of the country.
Certainly bear attacks are very rare. But for someone doing back country hiking or elk hunting in bear country, its greatly increased.
Posted on 9/19/18 at 4:29 pm to baldona
quote:
What are my chances as a healthy male in my 30s of dying from cardiovascular disease on a daily basis? Now if I hike in the back country, what are my chances of dying from a grizzly attack?
Your chances of dying of cardiovascular disease as a 30 year old are infinitely higher than being killed by a grizzly bear even if you live right next to Yellowstone and hike there every day
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