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Message
re: Wyoming hunting guide fatally mauled by grizzly bears
Posted on 9/19/18 at 4:59 pm to baldona
Posted on 9/19/18 at 4:59 pm to baldona
quote:
Certainly bear attacks are very rare. But for someone doing back country hiking or elk hunting in bear country, its greatly increased.
Yes it is higher.
But I looked at bear caused deaths since 2000 in North America. I was surprised how may occured not in what I would consider back country. Many were in somewhat developed areas. So you really don’t need to be 5 miles deep in the mountains.
1
Posted on 9/19/18 at 5:10 pm to Nodust
quote:
So you really don’t need to be 5 miles deep in the mountains.
Every spring we see reports of bears coming close to towns looking for food.
This spring there were 2 reports in Vancouver, WA which isn't a little country town.
Posted on 9/19/18 at 7:14 pm to jchamil
quote:
Your chances of dying of cardiovascular disease as a 30 year old are infinitely higher than being killed by a grizzly bear even if you live right next to Yellowstone and hike there every day
Prove this please. You are going off of some absurd stats that have absolutely nothing to do with the average person that dies from each in the given location.
What are the chances that someone from NYC that never leaves the city dies from a Grizzly atttack? Literallly 0.
I’m not disagreeing that bear attacks are very rare. I absolutely agree. I’m simply saying that a lot of this statistics on deaths are greatly skewed. The people that routinely engage in a given activity are much more likely than average to be affected.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 1:24 am to cgrand
quote:
sorry/not sorry... you do not approach a dead animal on the ground in grizzly country, especially if its been there a while. killing the bears for being bears isnt bringing back the guide who fricked up
Yea as I was reading it I was thinking about how I’m not sure they should’ve killed the bears. Maybe that’s incredible stupid but I mean, the bears were out in the wild. The guide and hunter left wild game out overnight then went back to get it which probably isn’t the best idea and the bears did what Grizzly bears do.
It’d be one think if the bears were near a populated area or maybe even inside part of the national park where ppl often traverse but to me this is just bears doing bear things
ETA: after reading some of the thread I’ve changed my opinion a bit and am ok with them killing the bears. I think anyways
This post was edited on 9/20/18 at 2:18 am
Posted on 9/20/18 at 10:27 am to baldona
quote:
baldona
nice job trying to explain
The statistics are only as good as the raw data.
Stats drawing conclusions from comparisons of vastly different numerical data sets simply because they have the same units of measure are essentially useless.
For instance I could note that the # of ovarian cancer deaths is X and that the # of prostate cancer deaths is Y in the US. Then I could tell you Y is 3 times as large as X.
And after all of that, a discussion with my female patient about her need to have a prostate exam and PSA annually due to a significantly higher risk of prostate cancer, is IDIOTIC!
As it pertains to this situation, even comparing hikers to hunters is a flawed comparison. Hikers often employ methods to avoid bears like noise makers, not carrying food, staying on trails. Where as hunters are actively attempting stealth to get near game animals, and when successful will be in direct contact with a food source. Heck there was recently a study showing how hunters are tracked from their vehicles on Elk hunts by radio tagged bears. They are waiting on an animal to be shot to steal the easy meal.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 11:12 am to Bleeding purple
I’ve never done much of anything in bear country, or at least dangerous bear country, and I see ppl talking about how important it is to make noise. What do hikers/hunters do at night when they are sleeping? Do they make some sort of batteried powered machine that will continue to make noise all throughout the night?
I’m imagine they much just curious, I’m leaening a lot through this thread
I’m imagine they much just curious, I’m leaening a lot through this thread
Posted on 9/20/18 at 11:20 am to Bleeding purple
quote:
Heck there was recently a study showing how hunters are tracked from their vehicles on Elk hunts by radio tagged bears. They are waiting on an animal to be shot to steal the easy meal.
Thats interesting, do you know who did the study or have a link?
Posted on 9/20/18 at 11:41 am to kengel2
Posted on 9/20/18 at 11:44 am to Wishnitwas1998
It is not that the noise scares off the bears. They make noise so they don't surprise the bears.
Walking over a small hill, around a boulder, or out of thick brush to startle a bear that was upwind could lead to an anxious, angry response from the bear.
Walking over a small hill, around a boulder, or out of thick brush to startle a bear that was upwind could lead to an anxious, angry response from the bear.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 11:58 am to Bleeding purple
obligatory:
quote:
A guy's going on a hiking vacation through the mountains out west.
Before setting off into the boonies, he stops into a small general store to get some supplies.
After picking out the rest of his provisions, he asks the old store owner, "Say mister, I'm going hiking up in the mountains, and I was wondering; do you have any bears around here?"
"Yup," replies the owner.
"What kind?" asks the hiker.
"Well, we got black bears and we got grizzlies," he replies.
"I see," says the hiker. "Do you have any of those bear bells?"
"What do you mean?" asks the store owner.
"You know," replies the hiker, "those little tinkle-bells that people wear in bear country to warn the bears that they are coming, so they don't surprise the bears and get attacked."
"Oh yeah," replies the owner. "They're over there," he says, pointing to a shelf on the other side of the store.
The hiker selects a couple of the bells and and takes them to the counter to pay for them. "Tell me something, mister," the hiker inquires, "how can you tell when you're in bear territory, anyway?"
"By the scat," the old fellow replies, ringing up the hiker's purchases.
"Well, um, how can I tell if it's grizzly territory or black bear territory?" the hiker asks.
"By the scat," the store owner replies.
"Well, what's the difference?" asks the hiker. "I mean, what's different between grizzly scat and black bear scat?"
"The stuff that's in it," replies the store owner. Getting a little frustrated, the hiker asks, "OK, so what's in grizzly bear scat that isn't in black bear scat?" he asks, an impatient tone in his voice.
"Bear bells," replies the old man as he hands the hiker his purchases.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 12:10 pm to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
ETA: after reading some of the thread I’ve changed my opinion a bit and am ok with them killing the bears. I think anyways
There’s been some more information released. It appears the mother bear attacked the guide first, then went after the client that lived, then went back after guide. At that point the client got out of dodge. It appears the guide walked about 50 yards then the Bear came back and killed him. There was evidence on the cub that it attacked the guide also, but the guides body had no evidence of being eaten. He died from a skull fracture it appears from being bitten, they said it was likely immediate death so it must have been a pretty nasty and powerful bite to the head.
Basically it sounds like the bears weren’t just there for an initial charge. It was an all out fight to the death, and the cub was involved. They couldn’t risk the cub learning the behavior and using it again.
I’m surprised it hasn’t been discussed but the client reported that he was unable to get the guides pistol to fire and it was a glock....
Final story
Posted on 9/20/18 at 12:49 pm to kengel2
quote:
Heck there was recently a study showing how hunters are tracked from their vehicles on Elk hunts by radio tagged bears. They are waiting on an animal to be shot to steal the easy meal.
Thats interesting, do you know who did the study or have a link?
I read a story long time ago (maybe 30 years ago) in Outdoor Life called Dinner Bell Bear....a man was mauled right after killing a deer. He luckily survived and somehow killed the bear.
Basically they talked about the bears knowing the gun shot=meat.
Eta...this took place in AK.
This post was edited on 9/20/18 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 9/20/18 at 12:55 pm to Bleeding purple
I guess I shouldnt be surprised by that study, but something about it is pretty terrifying. Im sure weve all seen the aftermath of a grizzly attack, not really something I want to experience.
Even if it entirely unlikely.
Even if it entirely unlikely.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 1:15 pm to kengel2
What i didn’t realize until recently is how long Grizzlies live, they can live 30 years or longer in the wild but around 25 is average. Humans are their most common form of death whether it be accidentally hit by a car, hunting, etc.
When you consider that it makes perfect sense that a bear will pick up bad behaviors over time such as following gun shots. That’s a lot of elk hunting seasons to live through.
When you consider that it makes perfect sense that a bear will pick up bad behaviors over time such as following gun shots. That’s a lot of elk hunting seasons to live through.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 1:31 pm to LSUintheNW
quote:
Basically they talked about the bears knowing the gun shot=meat.
This is true in areas heavily inhabited by bears. On the ABC Islands around here, it's a given that the gunshot will attract a bears attention.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 1:56 pm to RogerTheShrubber
In the study I linked hunters (not a gun shot) attracted some of the bears from the moment they parked their trucks and bears followed as closely as a 100 yards for days (usually unnoticed by the hunters) until they shot an elk.
Ever get that "I'm being watched" eerie feeling in the woods?
You probably were...!
Ever get that "I'm being watched" eerie feeling in the woods?
You probably were...!
Posted on 9/20/18 at 2:03 pm to kengel2
quote:
not really something I want to experience. Even if it entirely unlikely.
Nope that is why I carried a 454 Casull when I hunted Medicine Bow WY 2 yrs ago.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 2:13 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Ever get that "I'm being watched" eerie feeling in the woods?
All the time. I just assume it's a big cat and keep moving.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 3:15 pm to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
What do hikers/hunters do at night when they are sleeping?
Pray and put the bacon in someone else’s tent.
Posted on 9/20/18 at 3:28 pm to baldona
quote:
client reported that he was unable to get the guides pistol to fire and it was a glock.
Anyone else take issue with this?
Even the most ardent 1911 supporter must admit... Glocks nearly always go bang when the trigger is pulled.
This post was edited on 9/20/18 at 4:28 pm
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