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Started By
Message
re: Widening Highways Never Fixes Traffic. But Darnit, It Did in Texas
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:16 pm to Topwater Trout
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:16 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
this is the kind of logic we have to deal with where 10 and 110 meet off the bridge
exactly. even if a loop was built people wouldn't use it
0
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:18 pm to TheIndulger
quote:
Efficient public transportation that people actually use would solve the problem also
I agree - to an extent. Culturally, the West and South are just mass transit averse. So "that people actually use" is a huge deal in your argument.
Not every place can have a NYC subway system. The Washington/NVA system is starting to show that it has no clothes on - propped up, subsidized and deferred maintenance may shut entire lines for up to 6 months this year. And that was going to be the gold standard for everyone.
Managing traffic flow with the "combined" ("integrated" - if you will) route, greatly facilitated by smart phones is likely to be the standard model used by Millenials and subsequent generations in 8 to 10 years.
Think of it as bike sharing or ride sharing, but everywhere and with every node. I'm too old to embrace it, but it is exciting to imagine the world operating like that for a century or so.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:20 pm to Street Hawk
quote:
It isn’t supposed to work that way. The rule of induced demand says widening highways does not ease congestion, and often makes it worse. Transportation officials could see this anomaly as a Texas-sized reason to build more highways—but shouldn’t.
You can widen a road all you want, but congestion will always be with us due to cell phone usage. The base premise is normal driving requires that your focus be directed outward. When you are on your cell phone, your focus is inward, so you tend to go slower. In my opinion, cell phone users even go slower when they are not on the phone.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:21 pm to Wermanium
quote:that is another world to me
They are widening Hwy 59 in Rosenberg from two lanes to four.
i am waiting for 99 to connect to I-10 in 2021. Then people can hit Kingwood, Humble, Spring, and Woodlands without getting close to Houston metro
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:37 pm to Street Hawk
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:38 pm to Rouge
quote:
i am waiting for 99 to connect to I-10 in 2021. Then people can hit Kingwood, Humble, Spring, and Woodlands without getting close to Houston metro
It's nice. I can take 99 from 59 S to Katy and then to Spring.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:52 pm to jmitc22
quote:
It really comes down to whether Uncle Bob is doing 45 in the left lane during any hour.
Uncle Bob can DIACF
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:54 pm to Street Hawk
At some point, adding additional lanes HAS to decrease congestion. That's a mathematical certainty. "Studies" saying that doesn't happen are retarded.
Take the logic to its extreme: If I have 4 million drivers and add 3,999,997 lanes then congestion stays the same?
Take the logic to its extreme: If I have 4 million drivers and add 3,999,997 lanes then congestion stays the same?
Posted on 4/25/16 at 3:07 pm to theunknownknight
pretty sure widening I-10 West at highland has proven widening can help alleviate congestion.
Now if they would just fricking do it all the way to HWY 73!
Now if they would just fricking do it all the way to HWY 73!
Posted on 4/25/16 at 3:10 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
At some point, adding additional lanes HAS to decrease congestion.
The paradox is - it does at first, then traffic expands to fill available lanes. So, what the studies and observations show - it is a temporary patch on a permanent problem, then making the permanent problem worse. Cancer isn't the model - fatal addiction is.
At first, the hit is great. Then, you need more and more to stay even. At the end, it kills you.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 3:43 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
At some point, adding additional lanes HAS to decrease congestion. That's a mathematical certainty. "Studies" saying that doesn't happen are retarded.
like Ace was saying, there will come a point somewhere on that highway where turns, exits, tolls, wrecks, shitty drivers etc are going to cause all those lanes to jam up.
it doesn't matter how many lanes you have if its not set up efficiently and when you are cutting a highway through a city the odds are you wont be able to make it very efficient w/o some massive amounts of demolition to surrounding area.
This post was edited on 4/25/16 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 4/25/16 at 3:52 pm to Dr RC
I heart TXDOT. I typically give them about 1200 a year in tolls but I get to work in 12 minutes flat from north Dallas and traffic speeds are still about 40 mph in rush hour. PGBT is the tits.
Now, I-35E and DNT are a clusterfrick atm lol....
Now, I-35E and DNT are a clusterfrick atm lol....
Posted on 4/25/16 at 3:58 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:By "retarded" I meant most people would think adding lanes would lighten the traffic.
Well, if by "retarded" you mean, "backed up with observation and research" then, you're correct. How many lanes do the highways around the beltway have? They could have 30 lanes each way and be a mile wide - still would have crushing traffic jams.
There's only one true solution:
Posted on 4/25/16 at 4:01 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
this is the kind of logic we have to deal with where 10 and 110 meet off the bridge
Induced demand is not the issue keeping the Washington exit
Posted on 4/25/16 at 4:04 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
At some point, adding additional lanes HAS to decrease congestion. That's a mathematical certainty. "Studies" saying that doesn't happen are retarded.
Take the logic to its extreme: If I have 4 million drivers and add 3,999,997 lanes then congestion stays the same?
What was actually retarded is your post. Good lord.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 4:05 pm to Street Hawk
I'll have to pinch myself once the 290 widening is complete. It's such a headache right now. They said it'd be ready in time for the Super Bowl. We'll see about that 
Posted on 4/25/16 at 4:07 pm to The Mick
quote:
Basically building new roads entices more people to drive that route, or not carpool, etc. Seems retarded but that's the concept.
What the idiots who espouse this logic fail to realize is that people are driving no matter how many lanes you add. They just may take alternate routes to adjust to the heavy traffic. When the road is expanded and increased traffic flows to the newly expanded road, that leaves less cars driving the roads they left behind. It's like imagine a river delta. Near the mouth of a river, it splits into several streams. By widening and deepening one channel, more water flows into it, but that means less water is flowing into the others.
You will never have less flow total, but giving the flow more places to go will inevitably help.
This whole logic of "expanding highways doesn't solve anything" is just a cop-out excuse to avoid expensive infrastructure projects while wasting highway dollars on meaningless bullshite pet projects like greenways, road diets, and traffic calming.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 4:08 pm to Street Hawk
My wife commutes outbound on 290 in Houston (3-4 lane state highway with no shoulders). Accident happens on either side and the backups are huge. They are widening for extra lane and shoulders I believe. Just moving an accident to a shoulder still allows the designated lanes to continue moving.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 4:17 pm to kingbob
quote:
kingbob
Interesting analogy. What happens to speed of flow as the water hits the bird foot?
Posted on 4/25/16 at 4:26 pm to kingbob
quote:
This whole logic of "expanding highways doesn't solve anything" is just a cop-out excuse
Induced demand is real. The effects aren't just on traffic though.
If you widen a highway to reduce a person's commute from 20 minutes to ten minutes, they'll just move ten minutes farther away. This increases urban sprawl. And if someone else moves into that spot that used to be 20 minutes away, you've got an extra car on the highway that wasn't there before.
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