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Kelly says analytics says to go for it on fourth down. But which analytics?

Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:40 am
Posted by ChEgrad
Member since Nov 2012
3758 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:40 am
All NCAA teams combined? If you stick to LSU only analytics we are terrible on short yardage fourth down conversions in the red zone (at least in my memory of when we have tried that).

So, how in depth/accurate are these analytics? Are they based on LSU results only?
This post was edited on 9/3/25 at 12:02 pm
Posted by Who_Dat_Tiger
Member since Nov 2015
24706 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:44 am to
I saw a whole lot more going for it on 4th down this weekend than in the past. All coaches are moving towards the more analytical approach, not just LSU.

The analytics they’re using which say to go or kick/punt come down to the odds of gaining a few yards or less vs giving up an entire possession, odds of opponent scoring depending where you are on the field and trusting your defense.

Having said that, it was the wrong decision not to take the points before half. You only had 12 seconds to work with anyway and even if we picked up that first down there we would’ve had to kick a FG
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22827 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:47 am to
quote:

If you stick to LSU only analytics we are terrible on short yardage fourth down conversions in the red zone (at least in my memory of when we have tried that).


This team has played a single game together. We have almost an entirely new offensive line.
Posted by TheWalrus
Land of the Hogs
Member since Dec 2012
46135 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:56 am to
I refuse to believe analytics took into account the clock and TO situation and indicated going for it was the right move.
Posted by Nutriaitch
Montegut
Member since Apr 2008
10500 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 11:22 am to
quote:

So, how in depth/accurate are these analytics? Are they based on LSU results only?


analytics don't look at any team specifically.

they remove any people (specific personnel, coach, etc.) from the equation and turn everything into pure math and numbers.

what's the current score, down & distance, time on clock, timeouts remaining, etc.


the best coaches are the ones who can balance the analytics vs the "in game" choices.
analytics are all done in advance, so they don't take into equation the flow of that current game and things like that.

Posted by ChEgrad
Member since Nov 2012
3758 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 11:54 am to
quote:

analytics don't look at any team specifically. they remove any people (specific personnel, coach, etc.) from the equation and turn everything into pure math and numbers.


If that is the case, then the numbers aren’t worth much. Analytics needs to take into account your team’s strengths and weaknesses. Our personnel last year couldn’t get a push and yet we tried 4th and goal and number of times and usually failed. This OL may end up better and make it worth it, but it is too early to tell.
Posted by SouthernInsanity
Shadows of Death Valley
Member since Nov 2012
25233 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:03 pm to
Instead of trying to get the first, just throw a jump ball for Green.
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
22773 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:03 pm to
This really was the perfect game for our fanbase

We get a win on the road at a Top Five team, a coaching decision we can all attack, and a controversial replay call we can scream about.

What more can you ask for?
Posted by Yeti_Chaser
Member since Nov 2017
11538 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:06 pm to
His response was a stark contrast to the press conference from Jay Johnson talking about the lineup construction during the postseason last year. Those two guys are not in the same ballpark
This post was edited on 9/3/25 at 12:06 pm
Posted by mytigger
Member since Jan 2008
15271 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:13 pm to
Analytics my arse
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
40081 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

If that is the case, then the numbers aren’t worth much. Analytics needs to take into account your team’s strengths and weaknesses.


Then you don't understand analytics.

They're just raw numbers, and those raw numbers say you should go for it.

It doesn't matter if you've got 5 brand new lineman or a line that's started together for 2 years, a freshman qb or a redshirt senior qb, 3 star skill players or 5 star preseason all conference.

You're just supposed to go for it. Kelly consistently does, and he's going to do it again.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
40081 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

This really was the perfect game for our fanbase

We get a win on the road at a Top Five team, a coaching decision we can all attack, and a controversial replay call we can scream about.

What more can you ask for?


Well we didn't fire Kelly on Sunday morning and hire Saban Sunday night.
Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
12595 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:20 pm to
quote:

If that is the case, then the numbers aren’t worth much. Analytics needs to take into account your team’s strengths and weaknesses. Our personnel last year couldn’t get a push and yet we tried 4th and goal and number of times and usually failed.

We converted 50% of our 4th downs last year. That actually goes up to 80% on rushing attempts.

I can’t tell what it looked like on 4th & goal, but the situation you’re referencing wasn’t 4th & goal anyway. It also wasn’t a rushing attempt.. so I’m not sure how the “push” you mention makes much difference.

The analytics aren’t the issue. The problem was misapplication of the analytics (due to lack of time on the clock), something Kelly himself admitted yesterday.
Posted by josh336
baton rouge
Member since Jan 2007
81845 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:23 pm to
Im sure he is referring to typical 4th and 2 situations where analytics encourage going for it. Problem is he forgot to account for time left. If he had, he wouldve kicked the field goal. He admitted this yesterday in his press conference.
Posted by iwyLSUiwy
I'm your huckleberry
Member since Apr 2008
40554 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Are they based on LSU results only?


What
Posted by misey94
Member since Jan 2007
32776 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

If that is the case, then the numbers aren’t worth much. Analytics needs to take into account your team’s strengths and weaknesses.


No, that’s head coach’s job. The analytics are there to balance out human emotion, subjectivity and bias. It’s a good tool to help keep you from being too conservative, but also knowing when it’s not advisable to go for it by the numbers alone (like at your own 30 like FSU did vs Bama).

For example, Kelly said they punted when the analytics recommended going for it in the 2nd half due to the position on the field. However, he deemed it better to play field position with the lead and the way the defense was playing. It was a good decision. And looking back, he admitted passing on the FG before half was a mistake.

But again, it’s the staff’s job to balance the numbers. They need to be the ones to factor in the current score, way the game is going, weather, etc. We should never be too far one way or the other.
This post was edited on 9/3/25 at 12:28 pm
Posted by Kingshakabooboo
Member since Nov 2012
1437 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:27 pm to
Screw the analytics. Where is the good ole common sense.

1st game of season, breaking in new O-Line, in semi hostile environment, struggling somewhat in first half to generate explosive offense, limited clock time even if 4th converted plus a defense that had already shown could be leaned on= TAKE THE POINTS!!!!

Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
60601 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:29 pm to
quote:

I saw a whole lot more going for it on 4th down this weekend than in the past. All coaches are moving towards the more analytical approach, not just LSU.

This began a while ago, you are just seeing more and more coaches accept this and utilize it. I normally am ok with going for the 7...but in our case, with no points and kicking off the second I sure didnt want our first possession to potentially be two scores down.
Posted by Willie Stroker
Member since Sep 2008
15579 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

Kelly says analytics says to go for it on fourth down. But which analytics?

NCAA teams combined?

Of course it is all teams combined. There are no analytics for this team.

The best you can hope for is aggregated data under similar circumstances for all teams last year.
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
288099 posts
Posted on 9/3/25 at 12:44 pm to
Fans love analytic decisions when they work but hate them when they don’t, which isn’t how decisions work.
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