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ESPN ranks Saints as least desirable open job

Posted on 12/26/24 at 9:15 am
Posted by CP3forMVP
Member since Nov 2010
15793 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 9:15 am
They added a few jobs that aren't open (yet), but of the nine they listed the Saints were last:

quote:

Pros: Ownership, division
Cons: Roster, salary cap

The Saints are roughly where the Raiders were in 2011, when they were holding on for dear life with the league's worst cap situation in the hopes of being competitive. That team had an excuse: They were attempting to win another Super Bowl for Al Davis while the legendary owner was still alive, which was made more difficult by some of the key decisions Davis was making, including hiring Hue Jackson to be the new coach.

The Saints don't have that excuse or really any reason to operate the way they have over the past few years now that Drew Brees and Sean Payton have both left town. This season has continued the slide down the drain for New Orleans, which followed the firing of longtime Payton assistant Pete Carmichael during the offseason by dismissing coach Dennis Allen in midyear. Darren Rizzi has gone 3-3 as the interim coach, but this organization desperately needs to accept that the glory days aren't coming back until it gets a fresh start.

It seems as if there are two paths to take, and those paths might require two different kinds of coaches. One would be the path the Saints have taken over the past few years since Brees' retirement in 2021, the idea they can compete for a division title and host a playoff game if things break their way. While acknowledging they have been brutalized by injuries this season, it's more difficult to make that case than ever before. Cornerback Marshon Lattimore is gone, and offensive tackle Ryan Ramczyk is expected to retire because of a knee injury. Defensive end Cameron Jordan has five sacks over the past two seasons. Safety Tyrann Mathieu has looked a step slower this season. After a hot start to the season, running back Alvin Kamara has averaged 3.9 yards per carry and scored three touchdowns since Week 3. Tight end/offensive playmaker Taysom Hill tore his ACL earlier this month. These guys aren't likely to get better in 2025.

And there isn't as much as the Saints would hope to serve as the core of the next generation. Wideout Chris Olave has dealt with concussions this season. First-round picks Taliese Fuaga and Trevor Penning are works in progress at tackle as opposed to immediate solutions, with Penning's fifth-year option looming as a difficult call. Kool-Aid McKinstry has taken his lumps as a rookie corner, which isn't concerning, but Alontae Taylor has given up more expected points added (EPA) than any cornerback in the league. Paulson Adebo, another corner, broke his leg in October. The Saints have dropped from seventh in EPA allowed per play a year ago to 20th this season.


The other path would be to accept reality and begin a difficult rebuild. It'll take two years to get the bad contracts off the long-abused Saints' cap sheet, and what happens over that time span won't be pretty. This Mickey Loomis-led front office had an all-timer of a draft in 2017, but the results since then have been mixed. It remains to be seen if ownership lets Loomis and assistant GM Jeff Ireland handle the rebuild when it does come. The Benson family has been willing to pay massive bonuses up front year after year as part of restructures for the Saints to keep their cap afloat and shown plenty of patience as the organization tries to rebuild a post-Brees identity. Unfortunately, it might have been too much patience.


LINK

I don't think I can post the entire article, but they have Jacksonville as the most desirable franchise.
Posted by VA LSU fan
Virginia
Member since Dec 2007
8649 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 9:26 am to
Biggest Con - Loomis

Bad untouchable GM

Also a big Con - owner doesn't care about winning, just not being a laughing stock of the city.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
43032 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 9:39 am to
I didn't read all the write-ups but the pros and cons seem like a few of the organizations are placed too high and that maybe the Saints should be around 6 or 7 instead of 9. Cap space goes away over time so patient ownership willing to spend on talent trumps cap space, IMO. The lagging roster plus cap space is an issue though and that plus management could be a concern for a coach shopping for a job.

Still, there will be 9 open jobs as an NFL head coach. Are 9 coaches available who would take the job and are better than Allen? I'd say undoubtedly. Are 9 coaches available who would take the job and are better than Rizzi? I'd probably say yes with the caveat that we don't know what Rizzi can do as a full-time head coach. But I am not sure I want to find out with him as the Saints head coach unless management does it with a very short leash and no kicking the can down the road during that period.
Posted by RawDog7984
Member since Oct 2019
2208 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 9:46 am to
I can think of a couple other organizations who are about as bad as the saints. Cowboys (Jerry jones will never empower a coach). The jets and just an all out bad organization who can’t seem to get anything. But hard to argue with their take on this.
Posted by cbree88
South Louisiana
Member since Feb 2010
9858 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 9:58 am to
quote:

Pros: Ownership




This right here makes the writer lose all credibility.
Posted by S
RIP Wayde
Member since Jan 2007
169041 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:00 am to
Dallas is still a glamour job. Even Parcells went there knowing what he was getting into. If not for Loomis and Loomising the salary cap i’d put us above the Jets.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
71049 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:05 am to
quote:

I don't think I can post the entire article, but they have Jacksonville as the most desirable franchise.


I’ve been saying this for awhile. Khan wants to win and also gives his people some room. They have great facilities with a new stadium coming. Cap space. The area is pretty underrated especially Ponte vedra area with no state income tax. They have some good players on defense and if someone can get Lawrence playing at like a Goff level consistently then they’re rolling.

It’s a much better job than a shitshow like us, the jets, etc.
Posted by Circle K Beggar
Somewhere in the lower 48
Member since Feb 2011
7453 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:06 am to
quote:

ESPN ranks Saints as least desirable open job


It’ll be Rizzi. Accept that now. Our lazy joke of a GM will pinpoint the Cleveland game to sell it to the fanbase.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
34193 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:07 am to
The Saints don't have an owner that is going to inject herself into the day-to-day "football business" like other teams do (see Dallas as the biggest example). So it really comes down to two things (1) would Gayle fire Loomis and start over? (unlikely); (2) Will Loomis be able to accept failure and change course?

The approach of trying to put together a roster just good enough to win a bad division isn't working and isn't a long term solution. It's time to accept the window is closed (has been for a few years now) and start over. Do what you can to get any benefit from letting guys like Jordan, Davis, Honey Badger go (if even possible) . Consider trading Olave if you can. Good player...when healthy. But his brain is turning into scrambled eggs and he doesn't seem to want to be here. Be frugal in free agency and try to accumulate draft assets. Grin and bear the Carr mistake for at least another year until maybe you can get his contract into a workable spot to get rid of him and try to find your next QB.

The top coaching prospects aren't going to see New Orleans as a great job
Posted by Swagga
504
Member since Dec 2009
18814 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:07 am to
quote:

This right here makes the writer lose all credibility.



Gayle is the kind of owner coaches, gm’s, and players enjoy working for.

The fans may not like her hands off approach, but it’s certainly better than the alternative and dealing with Jerry Jones.
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
53696 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:14 am to
It is.
Posted by Jizzy08
Member since Aug 2008
12220 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:15 am to
Do we trust Gayle with hiring the right GM? So it’s either Loomis change his approach (probably not happening) or Gayle hire someone even worse than Loomis.
Posted by Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
15911 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:18 am to
Assuming (and I think correctly) that none of the top coaching candidates are going to choose the Saints job over teams with better rosters and better available cap $$$ to spend then Rizzi could be a good choice to HC the team through cleaning up the salary cap and maybe lightning strikes and he becomes that hidden gem that can continue into the future. If he fails then you replace him in 2027 when the team will be looking at a much better cap situation and hopefully figure out how to stockpile draft picks.

For me I don't think HC is the biggest concern (at this current stage) for this team at the moment. Sure you need a guy that can start to redefine the culture but lets face it, there's not one candidate out there than will take this roster and cap situation and make this team even remotely contender quality before the '27 season

The biggest question is can loomis be the guy to clean up the mess that (He and the whole front office) has made. i.e. can or will he be willing to change his strategy? I believe he will be able to. The second biggest question is can this front office truly handle a rebuild or will they cave to whining fans and continue to chase ghosts by more foolish spending and can kicking at the further cost of the future because they fear empty seats in the Dome.
Posted by cbree88
South Louisiana
Member since Feb 2010
9858 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:21 am to
quote:

Gayle is the kind of owner coaches, gm’s, and players enjoy working for. The fans may not like her hands off approach, but it’s certainly better than the alternative and dealing with Jerry Jones.


This doesn’t necessarily make her a good owner just because her employees like her.

Mickey Loomis should not have a job right now, but he’s good friends with Gayle and so he’s basically untouchable no matter how bad things get with the roster and the salary cap. That means the ownership is not really serious about winning as long as the team makes money.

You’ll never have a consistently good team with an owner like that who runs everything like a mom and pop operation and doesn’t really care that much about wins and losses.
This post was edited on 12/26/24 at 10:22 am
Posted by SEC Doctor
Member since Aug 2024
10796 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:25 am to
quote:

This doesn’t necessarily make her a good owner just because her employees like her.


I understand your point, but the article is about what job is most desirable. For a head coach, the Saints ownership is better than some others. Mrs. Benson is willing to stick with a losing coach for too long. Bad for the fans and the team's success, but good for the coach who gets job security.

If the article was just grading out the franchises in general, I would agree with you that ownership is a negative for the Saints because of lack of competent leadership.
Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
101674 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:28 am to
Deadspin did the same
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
73976 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:30 am to
quote:

owner doesn't care about winning


This is a dumb talking point

The whole reason we are in this mess is bc they were going all in to win. Not winning and not caring about winning are two different things
Posted by Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
15911 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:30 am to
quote:

Do we trust Gayle with hiring the right GM?


IMO it would be wrong to assume that Gayle would not have people outside the organization to advise her on such a decision. (And no not the Archbishop)
Posted by VA LSU fan
Virginia
Member since Dec 2007
8649 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:31 am to
It all starts with the horrible owner who empowers the untouchable even worse GM that decided to pay for a losing roster year after year while letting good young talent walk.
Posted by PhillyTiger90
Member since Dec 2015
11665 posts
Posted on 12/26/24 at 10:53 am to
Gayle won’t fire Loomis but he needs to get promoted upwards with a title and a desk away from the control room.

No coach with any promise will want to come here until that happens
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