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Started By
Message
Why are Arrests made public if people are Innocent Until Proven Guilty ?
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:46 am
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:46 am
Especially in the internet age where the Arrest is immediately made available to the world, and the damage is instantaneous & irreversible.
All an arrest is is a Cop claiming to have probable cause that you committed a crime, or claiming to have witnessed you committing a crime.
An arrest isn't even being charged with a crime, let alone being convicted of a crime.
Quite often the DA doesn't even charge the person because the Cop was clueless & the arrest was unjustified.
And yet the person has been defamed to the public & now has an arrest record that could cost him his career & reputation, while the Cop isn't held accountable for the damage.
A retired Cop once told me that you wouldn't believe how often people are arrested for no other reason than they pissed off the Cop, or the Cop felt disrespected & had his feelings hurt.
If we're truly Innocent Until Proven Guilty then Arrests, and even Charges, shouldn't be made public.
The only thing that should be public is if you're convicted.
All an arrest is is a Cop claiming to have probable cause that you committed a crime, or claiming to have witnessed you committing a crime.
An arrest isn't even being charged with a crime, let alone being convicted of a crime.
Quite often the DA doesn't even charge the person because the Cop was clueless & the arrest was unjustified.
And yet the person has been defamed to the public & now has an arrest record that could cost him his career & reputation, while the Cop isn't held accountable for the damage.
A retired Cop once told me that you wouldn't believe how often people are arrested for no other reason than they pissed off the Cop, or the Cop felt disrespected & had his feelings hurt.
If we're truly Innocent Until Proven Guilty then Arrests, and even Charges, shouldn't be made public.
The only thing that should be public is if you're convicted.
38
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:48 am to Joe Dimaggio
As someone who is friends with a person who damn near had his entire life ruined due to a public arrest based on completely fabricated accusations, I agree with you on all of this.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:49 am to Joe Dimaggio
quote:
Why are Arrests made public if people are Innocent Until Proven Guilty ?
Generally, all actions of the state should be transparent. If the state can do secret arrests and secret prosecutions, then there is no check on state power, because no one knows what's going on. It is never a good look to be arrested or charged, but the alternative (secret arrests and prosecutions) is much worse.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:51 am to Joe Dimaggio
I agree with you. A angry child can accuse a adult of molestation and the adult gets arrested. Its plastered all over the News, internet, social media etc. days later it can discovered that it was all BS and they are released. If that is even released it is buried on page 10 of the paper or not covered at all. That person will forever be tainted because a seed has been planted in ppl's heads.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:53 am to Joe Dimaggio
It’s in the public interest to know this stuff. That should be obvious.
“Hey, that girl I’m going on a date with was arrested last year for public intoxication. No thanks.”
“Oh, this guy I’m going into a business deal with was arrested for fraud. Sounds like I need to find someone else.”
“Hey, that girl I’m going on a date with was arrested last year for public intoxication. No thanks.”
“Oh, this guy I’m going into a business deal with was arrested for fraud. Sounds like I need to find someone else.”
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:53 am to TBoy
quote:
Generally, all actions of the state should be transparent. If the state can do secret arrests and secret prosecutions, then there is no check on state power, because no one knows what's going on. It is never a good look to be arrested or charged, but the alternative (secret arrests and prosecutions) is much worse.
Fair point. I wonder if there's a middle ground that could be done like not broadcasting photos or listing the first name only.
You would still need to put out an APB for a wanted suspect though.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:55 am to Joe Dimaggio
Much of our justice system is the process is the punishment.
People who are actually guilty of non violent offenses and serve their time have their lives ruined forever. That’s another area that should be addressed.
People who are actually guilty of non violent offenses and serve their time have their lives ruined forever. That’s another area that should be addressed.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:57 am to Bestbank Tiger
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:58 am to Bestbank Tiger
Check how Great Britain handles it. It used to be no names until convicted. I don't know what changed.
There was a abduction from a shopping center of a small boy by two slightly larger boys that might have caused the release of names.
There was a abduction from a shopping center of a small boy by two slightly larger boys that might have caused the release of names.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:58 am to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
I agree with you. A angry child can accuse a adult of molestation and the adult gets arrested. Its plastered all over the News, internet, social media etc. days later it can discovered that it was all BS and they are released. If that is even released it is buried on page 10 of the paper or not covered at all. That person will forever be tainted because a seed has been planted in ppl's heads.
Or a vindictive and manipulative ex-wife can convince a child to go along with a fictitious story she created in her warped mind with the sole purpose of damaging her ex-husband. That's the scenario, and so much more to the story, that I referred to in my first post.
No, it wasn't me, but I pretty much had a front row seat to the shitshow that ensued and how it basically destroyed the guy for a while.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:08 pm to Joe Dimaggio
because it'a an arrest not a conviction
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:10 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
Or a vindictive and manipulative ex-wife can convince a child to go along with a fictitious story she created in her warped mind with the sole purpose of damaging her ex-husband. That's the scenario, and so much more to the story, that I referred to in my first post.
No, it wasn't me, but I pretty much had a front row seat to the shitshow that ensued and how it basically destroyed the guy for a while.
Same. I have a good friend whose ex convinced both the boys to say he molested them, and she had him arrested. He was an insurance agent, and had his own office. She filed a report with them saying he was filing fake claims and committing insurance fraud.
All charges were dropped after the detectives figured out she and the kids were making it up. The stories were "wildly inconsistent," in their opinion. His agency was audited, and no fraudulent activity was found, but coupled with the CSA claims the carrier terminated his contract and he lost his business. He became a used car salesman.
It sucked for him for a long time. Now he owns three car dealerships.
This post was edited on 7/6/24 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:11 pm to Joe Dimaggio
quote:
And yet the person has been defamed to the public & now has an arrest record
Whether or not it's announced, you'll still have an arrest record.
quote:
If we're truly Innocent Until Proven Guilty then Arrests, and even Charges, shouldn't be made public.
You are only presumed innocent, which is vastly different from you saying truly innocent. It just means your punishment isn't doled out until later. If we were treated like we were truly innocent, bond/bail would be pretty fricked up and unconstitutional
This post was edited on 7/6/24 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:12 pm to Joe Dimaggio
This is a guy I used to work with a long time ago
I see him about a year or so after this came out. He's friendly and asking what's been going on. I guess he notices that I'm a little reserved so he brings it up. Tells me it wasn't him, they got the wrong guy and then says "honestly. No charges were brought. Look it up. I'm trying to see how to clear my name. I can't get work." So I asked my buddy that works in the news to do some digging and he said sure enough that entire thing just went away. No charges.
Yet his mugshot where he was absolutely beat to shite is still online.
I see him about a year or so after this came out. He's friendly and asking what's been going on. I guess he notices that I'm a little reserved so he brings it up. Tells me it wasn't him, they got the wrong guy and then says "honestly. No charges were brought. Look it up. I'm trying to see how to clear my name. I can't get work." So I asked my buddy that works in the news to do some digging and he said sure enough that entire thing just went away. No charges.
Yet his mugshot where he was absolutely beat to shite is still online.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:13 pm to Joe Dimaggio
spot on brother
it's the Gestapo now days
it's the Gestapo now days
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:20 pm to PGAOLDBawNeVaBroke
quote:
What did you do baw ?
I've never been arrested, let alone charged or convicted.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:20 pm to Joe Dimaggio
Making the state less transparent is not the answer.
And businesses and people have the right to distance themselves from even the perception of wrongdoing.
Does it result in unfairness sometimes? Absolutely.
But the only way to stop it is to reduce freedoms in some way or another.
But you can reduce your risk by clean living and avoiding sketchy people/places/behaviors. It's no guarantee but it is effective.
I'm not on board with tampering with the system because of the rare unfairness. No system will ever be perfect and we can easily get a lot worse.
And businesses and people have the right to distance themselves from even the perception of wrongdoing.
Does it result in unfairness sometimes? Absolutely.
But the only way to stop it is to reduce freedoms in some way or another.
But you can reduce your risk by clean living and avoiding sketchy people/places/behaviors. It's no guarantee but it is effective.
I'm not on board with tampering with the system because of the rare unfairness. No system will ever be perfect and we can easily get a lot worse.
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:21 pm to Joe Dimaggio
How could it be hidden???... the alternative is a secret arrest... it's made public because it's the public business... should trail or the verdict be a secret???
Posted on 7/6/24 at 12:23 pm to Joe Dimaggio
quote:
If we're truly Innocent Until Proven Guilty then Arrests, and even Charges, shouldn't be made public.
The only thing that should be public is if you're convicted.
i agree completely. I know of an instance where an ex accused a father of the worst kind of thing. It was shortly dismissed but that stain won't ever go away. Of course she gets basically scolded for filing a false report.
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