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re: Florida deputy fatally shot US airman that answered the door with a gun
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:13 pm to Pandy Fackler
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:13 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
knowing there's a cop on the other side
Any proof of this? I see a cop intentionally trying to obfuscate that visual confirmation.
0
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:15 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
I don't give a frick if the cop announced himself as Jesus Christ...the dude should be able to answer his own door with a firearm without worrying about being killed.
IMO how this gets overlooked is wild. if anything it justifies him answering a door with his firearm, its pretty much the point of 2a. are you supposed to just lick the boots before you even know why they need to be licked in your own home before you even know what is happening?
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:31 pm to AMS
quote:
IMO how this gets overlooked is wild. if anything it justifies him answering a door with his firearm, its pretty much the point of 2a. are you supposed to just lick the boots before you even know why they need to be licked in your own home before you even know what is happening?
It's a symptom of people who are "real big 2A guys, but..."
They want to look like they live the 2A life on social media, but they're not willing to put in the work.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:45 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
quote:
IMO how this gets overlooked is wild. if anything it justifies him answering a door with his firearm, its pretty much the point of 2a. are you supposed to just lick the boots before you even know why they need to be licked in your own home before you even know what is happening?
It's a symptom of people who are "real big 2A guys, but..."
They want to look like they live the 2A life on social media, but they're not willing to put in the work.
This is fricking dumb man.
No one says he doesn't have the right to answer his door, knowing there's a cop on the other side, with a gun in his hand. Depending on where you live, you have lots of rights when it comes to gun ownership but that doesn't mean you're absolved from being stupid. How about we sometimes ground ourselves in the world we live in and not as we think it should be.
In principle, yes. You should be able to walk down the street with a locked and loaded AR-15 in your hand and in some places, the law allows it. But if I see someone doing that, the first thing that comes to my mind is spree killer, the second is giant a-hole.
And under normal, everyday circumstances. If I knock on someone's door during the day and he answers with a gun in his hand, then I'm drawing the rightful conclusion that something's wrong with him.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:46 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
This is fricking dumb man.
Not if you actually give a frick about your rights.
quote:
No one says he doesn't have the right to answer his door, knowing there's a cop on the other side, with a gun in his hand.
If you can be killed for exercising your rights, you don't have those rights.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:52 pm to AMS
quote:
IMO how this gets overlooked is wild. if anything it justifies him answering a door with his firearm, its pretty much the point of 2a. are you supposed to just lick the boots before you even know why they need to be licked in your own home before you even know what is happening?
this is where I am falling.
The fact is is the cop did not give the guy a reasonable amount of time to follow the orders before he blasted him away. Its not illegal to answer your own door with a gun. It doesn't really matter if it was a dumb move or not. It is well within your rights as a citizen to do so, and it does not give a cop the right to start shooting at you, especially after sketchily banging on the door then hiding around the corner out of sight of the peephole. If the cop had said drop your weapon and the guy raised the weapon, then different story. But that is not what happened. The cop shouted orders and then a second later (maybe less) started unloading on this dude. The cop murdered this dude. There is no way around it.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:52 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Cop should be charged with murder. Same charge I would get if I walked into someone's home and shot them.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:57 pm to baldona
quote:
He was reporting to a call for domestic violence. Someone answered the door with a gun. He fricked up. But part of my can sympathize because that's a shitty job and I wouldn't want it. Really no one wants that job.
Actions have consequences. He should have triple checked he was at the right address.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:05 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
and i can understand that completely.
It still doesn't change the fact that he knew it was the cops announcing themselves, and still chose to answer the door that way. Still shouldnt' be a death sentence, but it's extremely dumb.
I don’t really understand what hill you’re trying to die on here.
What is the actual point of this argument?
You say he made a bad decision by opening the door with a gun in his hand. I agree (although I disagree with the premise that answering your door with a gun is somehow always stupid), and I think most people in this thread have agreed. I think it’s pretty easy to look at the situation and say he’d still be alive if he had put the gun down once he heard the guy say he was with the sheriff’s office.
OK… so what? Why does it matter at this point? He’s dead.
It’s analogous to the “she shouldn’t have worn that dress in that part of town” argument. Like.. sure, use it as learning for yourself and your loved ones. Don’t let them repeat her mistake. But the fact that she was walking around in the hood dressed that way doesn’t mean she deserved it, nor does it mitigate the actions of the POS who raped her.
I’m sure if he could go get a do-over, he would have put the pistol down. But that ship has sailed and he’s already received the worst possible punishment for his decision. It’s only relevant, at this point, to whatever extent it absolves the cop. You keep saying you aren’t absolving the cop of anything. So I don’t really get it.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:16 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
The fact is is the cop did not give the guy a reasonable amount of time to follow the orders before he blasted him away.
No one in this thread has said what he did was right and doesnt' deserve consequences for his trigger happiness.
quote:
Its not illegal to answer your own door with a gun.
No one has said it is not.
It's not illegal for me to ride my bike down Siegen Lane at 5PM on a Friday either.
quote:
It doesn't really matter if it was a dumb move or not.
Yeah, it does matter. It's part of the reason why he's dead. If he isn't a dumbass and answers the door like a normal person, he's alive today. But go ahead and prove your point that you can answer the door with a gun when a cop is at the door. We can put on your gravestone that you were well within your rights.
I can go ride my bike on Siegen Lane right now. Have every right to do so. And i'd be a fricking idiot for doing so, and i can guaranfrickingtee you every single person on this site would call me a dumbass if i ended up dead b/c a car hit me.
I can also call Mike Tyson a fricking pussy if i'm ever face to face with him, and it's completely legal for me to say that to him, and if i get my arse whipped b/c of it he goes to jail, but hey i proved my point b/c i have rights.
We have our rights, but that doesn't excuse you from being a dumbass in how you chose to use them, and having your rights doesn't just automatically prevent other people from breaking the law against you when you're a lawful idiot.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:21 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We have our rights, but that doesn't excuse you from...
If. The. Government. Can. Kill. You. For. Exercising. Your. Rights. You. Don't. Have. Rights.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:25 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Yeah, it does matter. It's part of the reason why he's dead. If he isn't a dumbass and answers the door like a normal person, he's alive today. But go ahead and prove your point that you can answer the door with a gun when a cop is at the door. We can put on your gravestone that you were well within your rights.
I can go ride my bike on Siegen Lane right now. Have every right to do so. And i'd be a fricking idiot for doing so, and i can guaranfrickingtee you every single person on this site would call me a dumbass if i ended up dead b/c a car hit me.
I can also call Mike Tyson a fricking pussy if i'm ever face to face with him, and it's completely legal for me to say that to him, and if i get my arse whipped b/c of it he goes to jail, but hey i proved my point b/c i have rights.
We have our rights, but that doesn't excuse you from being a dumbass in how you chose to use them, and having your rights doesn't just automatically prevent other people from breaking the law against you when you're a lawful idiot.
You did good with that but this thread struggles with sense making.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:26 pm to Dog Tree
quote:
I wonder what the cop was told on his way to the call. We know its a domestic violence call, which can be one of the most dangerous. Why didn't he wait for back up? Was he told someone was being harmed and needed immediate help? Did the lady in the video give him the correct apartment number?
Why did someone call 911 in the first place? Were they actually concerned for someone inside the apartment, or were they just trying to frick with the dude?
To me, there are too many questions to start drawing conclusions.
all valid questions but none of them really have anything to do with the situation at hand
the fundamental situation is the interaction between the airman and the cop and the cop’s following training, doctrine and procedure
when the guy opened the door it is the responsibility of the deputy to handle the situation correctly and safely.
shoot first, command second when the guy has the gun pointed down is a fundamental breakdown of the deputy’s training
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:28 pm to Pandy Fackler
Not really. Y'all are just latching on to a twisted version of the is-ought problem to avoid admitting that you're wrong.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:37 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
If. The. Government. Can. Kill. You. For. Exercising. Your. Rights. You. Don't. Have. Rights.
Ok bud. b/c tha'ts what we are talking about here.
I
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:40 pm to LSUDVM1999
That dude probably had the goods on someone or something.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:40 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Ok bud. b/c tha'ts what we are talking about here.
I
No shite.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:45 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
AwgustaDawg
You can’t be this dumb lol
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:49 pm to LSUDVM1999
It's difficult for me to blame the LEO in these situations. They are following their training which if they don't do puts them in legal jeopardy.
Now HOWEVER, I have zero difficulty blaming the people who are responsible for implementing and approving these LEO tactics and training. This is where an investigation should be held by Congress. Who is pushing these tactics on LEO? Does this come from the DOJ/FBI directives?
Now HOWEVER, I have zero difficulty blaming the people who are responsible for implementing and approving these LEO tactics and training. This is where an investigation should be held by Congress. Who is pushing these tactics on LEO? Does this come from the DOJ/FBI directives?
Posted on 5/10/24 at 2:51 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
quote: I have relatives who were police officers and I understand the idea that they have the right to “go home after their shift”
quote:
He has a right to go home at the end of his shift. And now he has the right to a trial for the laws he broke and the life he wrongly took. He should be charged criminally if he hasn’t been already.
You literally cut off the second part of my sentence when you quoted me thereby taking it out of context. You the proceeded to convey basically the same point I made - that the cop committed a crime.
Not saying you did it purposely, but just wanting to clarify.
quote:
I have relatives who were police officers and I understand the idea that they have the right to “go home after their shift”, but there is also a knowledge that as part of their job they do put themselves in harms way. The cop should have drawn his weapon while ordering the guy to drop the gun. He didn’t. He drew and fired. That’s a crime.
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