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re: Zach Lowe & Kevin Pelton can't imagine a world where Trey isn't starting next year
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:08 am to DarkHornet
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:08 am to DarkHornet
quote:If 2 straight seasons of being a top 4 seed isn't a need, then I don't know what will be.
So many want to make something out of the fact that we haven't gone into the tax the last few seasons, but there was no real need to do so
3
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:17 am to shel311
The answer is dumping BI for whatever assets you can get. 1) it’s addition by subtraction; 2) you get some type of assets for him; 3) you free up money to pay Trey and maybe a more athletic center.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:40 am to shel311
quote:
Last season we were 1 game out of the 3 seed around the trade deadline.
This season we were the 4 seed with about 3 weeks to go in the season.
The opportunity clearly presented itself these past 2 seasons, we did nothing to capitalize on it. We actually went the other way and made moves to avoid the tax and giving up multiple draft picks to do so.
There's a very logical argument that if we made a move to get better and thus go into the tax before last season's deadline, that we would have been a top 6 seed in each of these last 2 seasons.
At the trade deadline last year, Brandon Ingram had already missed most of the season, we just finished a 10 game losing streak, and Zion was hurt about a month before that (never to return).
With the repeat tax rules in place now, you don't jump into the tax until you feel you have a shot at a title (unless you are a big market franchise that pays it every single year).
In no way was that last year around the trade deadline.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 10:42 am
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:45 am to BigPerm30
It's not addition by subtraction, unless the asset we get back is a legit #2 player.
Breaking up a team that won 49 games to save money is never a good look, especially when it's obvious you dumped a guy just to save money.
Let me give you an example of a good move, and a bad move.
Trading BI to Utah for Lauri will save us a good bit of money this year, and we'll likely be a tax team next year when Trey and Lauri make more. You can argue Lauri is a better fit on this team than BI, and will make us better, and i think most unbias people would agree.
While we saved money this year, we actually got better.
Trading BI to Cleveland for Jarrett Allen and Caris LeVert, and then dumping LeVert somewhere will save us money, and while some of you think we'll be better with Allen, we aren't a better team b/c we removed an all-star caliber wing and replaced him with a high energy center who can't shoot. Now we are relying on CJ to be the main creator after Zion, and while i love CJ, he needs to be our #3 guy, not #2. And hell we might actually be better once the season plays out, but the optics of a BI for Allen trade to save money won't sit well at all with the players. No one thinks Allen and BI are equal players, and no player gives a shite about us getting draft picks back. We are ready to win now, and draft picks dont' help with that.
There's a big difference between Jarrett Allen and Lauri Markannen, and both save us money. And you can give your bias opinion that Allen is a better fit than BI blah blah. No one outside of this site believes that.
Breaking up a team that won 49 games to save money is never a good look, especially when it's obvious you dumped a guy just to save money.
Let me give you an example of a good move, and a bad move.
Trading BI to Utah for Lauri will save us a good bit of money this year, and we'll likely be a tax team next year when Trey and Lauri make more. You can argue Lauri is a better fit on this team than BI, and will make us better, and i think most unbias people would agree.
While we saved money this year, we actually got better.
Trading BI to Cleveland for Jarrett Allen and Caris LeVert, and then dumping LeVert somewhere will save us money, and while some of you think we'll be better with Allen, we aren't a better team b/c we removed an all-star caliber wing and replaced him with a high energy center who can't shoot. Now we are relying on CJ to be the main creator after Zion, and while i love CJ, he needs to be our #3 guy, not #2. And hell we might actually be better once the season plays out, but the optics of a BI for Allen trade to save money won't sit well at all with the players. No one thinks Allen and BI are equal players, and no player gives a shite about us getting draft picks back. We are ready to win now, and draft picks dont' help with that.
There's a big difference between Jarrett Allen and Lauri Markannen, and both save us money. And you can give your bias opinion that Allen is a better fit than BI blah blah. No one outside of this site believes that.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:13 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Disagree, I think we absolutely can trade BI and get better even if a legit #2 isn't coming back.
It's not addition by subtraction, unless the asset we get back is a legit #2 player.
quote:I mean, it's more so retooling and re-allocating money more wisely.
Breaking up a team that won 49 games to save money is never a good look, especially when it's obvious you dumped a guy just to save money.
quote:I do think we'd immediately be better with Allen as opposed to BI.
and while some of you think we'll be better with Allen, we aren't a better team b/c we removed an all-star caliber wing and replaced him with a high energy center who can't shoot.
quote:While true, he's darn near as good as BI as the #2 so there's not really much #2 drop off.
Now we are relying on CJ to be the main creator after Zion, and while i love CJ, he needs to be our #3 guy, not #2.
The thing is, BI isn't a #2 either. So we'd be getting rid of a non #2 to have another non #2 play #2 but upgrading a position of need.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:14 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Trading BI to Cleveland for Jarrett Allen and Caris LeVert, and then dumping LeVert somewhere will save us money, and while some of you think we'll be better with Allen, we aren't a better team b/c we removed an all-star caliber wing and replaced him with a high energy center who can't shoot. Now we are relying on CJ to be the main creator after Zion, and while i love CJ, he needs to be our #3 guy, not #2. And hell we might actually be better once the season plays out, but the optics of a BI for Allen trade to save money won't sit well at all with the players. No one thinks Allen and BI are equal players, and no player gives a shite about us getting draft picks back. We are ready to win now, and draft picks dont' help with that.
What makes BI All Star Caliber? He made it once like four years ago.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:28 am to shel311
quote:
The thing is, BI isn't a #2 either. So we'd be getting rid of a non #2 to have another non #2 play #2 but upgrading a position of need.
He’s not a #2 and he’s going to want #1 money. Cut your losses and get assets for him.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:42 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
There's a big difference between Jarrett Allen and Lauri Markannen, and both save us money. And you can give your bias opinion that Allen is a better fit than BI blah blah. No one outside of this site believes that.
There is a big difference between the two but you’re really dismissing the difference Jarrett Allen could make to this team. Hes averaging career high 16.5 points and 10 boards. He has had 20 and 18 rebounds against a good Magic team, just imagine what he would do against this Thunder team. Look in comparison especially regarding skillset BI is the better player but a lot of what BI does is redundant on this team or can be replaced. Allen can do things on this team that nobody can really replicate its invaluable. In the end, you’re trying to make this team better and not just collect talented players. I also think its plausible that Trey develops into a number two player (I’m not saying he is one right now) but if you’re going to pay him that money- he needs that opportunity. Plus I’m just going to be honest- there are many teams that probably don’t view BI as a number two and if thats the case why would they just hand us over a number two. I can promise you if you asked gms most would say Lauri is worth more than BI. The only guy I think you might be able to get is Dejounte.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 12:25 pm to Pels_Yaz
Cleveland seems close in a conference that is a much lower mountain to climb than the west.
I would love Allen on this team, but I just don’t see why Cleveland would see Ingram on a max contract is the piece they need to be a yearly Eastern contender over the next 3-5.
I would love Allen on this team, but I just don’t see why Cleveland would see Ingram on a max contract is the piece they need to be a yearly Eastern contender over the next 3-5.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 1:21 pm to shel311
quote:
If 2 straight seasons of being a top 4 seed isn't a need, then I don't know what will be
What you are talking about is starting the repeater tax clock for the possibility of getting out of the first round? It didn't feel like it was the time to strike to me, but what do I know
Posted on 4/24/24 at 1:27 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
Cleveland seems close in a conference that is a much lower mountain to climb than the west.
But Mitchell supposedly wants out of the small market and if they get smoked by Boston, he’s not changing his mind.
If Mitchell asks out, they will be building around Garland/Mobley. In the regular season rotations, they staggered guard/big pairings. Allen played most of his minutes with Mitchell and Mobley played with Garland.
Even though he’s adored in Cleveland, it’s easy to speculate that if Mitchell is gone, it makes the most sense for the Cavs to get value for Allen. Ingram fits in that situation as a scoring complement and secondary playmaker to Garland with Mobley anchoring the defense assuming they can’t otherwise get someone like Mikal Bridges. Biggest sticking point would be Ingram’s next contract.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 1:42 pm to shel311
Hmmm I would let CJ go. He is old and you probably not going to get too many more years out of him. Looks like he is laboring on the court as is.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 1:43 pm to shel311
I did not expect this topic to go for 7 pages
Posted on 4/24/24 at 1:56 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Trading BI to Cleveland for Jarrett Allen and Caris LeVert, and then dumping LeVert somewhere will save us money, and while some of you think we'll be better with Allen, we aren't a better team b/c we removed an all-star caliber wing and replaced him with a high energy center who can't shoot. Now we are relying on CJ to be the main creator after Zion, and while i love CJ, he needs to be our #3 guy, not #2. And hell we might actually be better once the season plays out, but the optics of a BI for Allen trade to save money won't sit well at all with the players. No one thinks Allen and BI are equal players, and no player gives a shite about us getting draft picks back. We are ready to win now, and draft picks dont' help with that.
BI is an All Star Caliber Wing but Jarrett Allen is a "High energy center" despite the fact that they've both made 1 All star game? Make it make sense.
BI and Allen are a lot closer than you think. I think Jarrett Allen is better than BI. I value what he does just so much more than BI
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:11 pm to Balsamic_duck
If you already have a number 1, an elite role player is probably worth more to your franchise than a low level number 1 option.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:31 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:I feel like my post was anti-FOMO...it's the fear of NOT missing out on a chance to move BI.
The FOMO is real.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:33 pm to DarkHornet
quote:Fair enough for 2 seasons ago.
What you are talking about is starting the repeater tax clock for the possibility of getting out of the first round? It didn't feel like it was the time to strike to me, but what do I know
But...We were the 4 seed 3 weeks before the end of THIS season.
If we had already added another solid piece at the deadline, what would make you think we're a 1st round out?
To get technical, you mentioned the possibility of being a 1st round out. Without a top 5 player, which we don't have and have zero chance to get one, we will always be a possible 1st round out. You can't let that stop you from taking a swing at it.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:35 pm to jonjonsmith
quote:He was arguably the best 3pt shooter in the NBA this season.
Hmmm I would let CJ go. He is old and you probably not going to get too many more years out of him. Looks like he is laboring on the court as is.
We were 25th in 3pt attempts. If we get rid of him, that likely becomes 30th.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 2:51 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
BI is an All Star Caliber Wing but Jarrett Allen is a "High energy center" despite the fact that they've both made 1 All star game? Make it make sense.
BI and Allen are a lot closer than you think. I think Jarrett Allen is better than BI. I value what he does just so much more than BI
and that is a very Pels Talk thing to say, that no one outside of this site would agree with.
You want to call Jarrett Allen All-Star caliber, go right ahead. I won't object to that. he's a really good player, and i like him.
I"m sure he'll get a $50M/yr contract soon too b/c he's such a great player and plays a position of so much importance.
We simply don't need a 5 that can't shoot a lick. Derrick Favors, Steven Adams, then JV, none of them are 3 point threats, and none of them are a lob threat. At least Allen has that goign for him, but i don't know who's going to through a lob to him. We've got one of the best lob threats in the league yet we rarely ever run pick and rolls with him to throw lobs to him.
Allen is going to be rolling to the goal while CJ takes step back mid range shots coming off the screen. Watch that shot chart you all love change next year for CJ with no BI.
Why are we settling for a guy at the 5 that isn't the fit we need? We have a top 10 defense. We don't need to go find better defensive center. We simpy need one that can shoot.
You can make an argument Wendell Carter Jr would be a better fit than Allen. At least he can shoot.
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