Do you consider rap and hip hop to be music?

I don't know about hip hop but when rap music began, it was good.

Now the lyrics are awful.

Yes. It's a very diverse genre really, and I doubt Jerry Garcia listed to a lot of it.

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Do you consider rap and hip hop to be music?

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Of course it is...particularly hip hop. In what world is music not music?

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Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead famously said that rap is not music, it’s talking.

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I mean, it says as much musically as most Grateful Dead songs, soooooooooooooooooo......

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There has been a debate for awhile about whether rap and hip hop truly meet the definition of what we would define as “music”.

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Well, how about you start with defining what "music" is so we can have a debate? Otherwise, everyone is just blowing smoke.

I don't have a problem with artists sampling from other artists, which is a big part of rap. I see it mentioned here and all the time that sampling is not a "musical instrument." I believe it is as much of a musical instrument as using a synthesizer, which is not all that much different and most here would consider it a musical instrument. Some may argue that sampling does not take talent, but there are various degrees of sampling. Some can be very complicated, and some can be simple. IMO, most sampling is as difficult or more difficult than many simple rock songs - see "Horse with No Name" that only uses 2 chords.

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There has been a debate for awhile about whether rap and hip hop truly meet the definition of what we would define as “music”

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Not amongst anyone with an opinion that matters if they're arguing against.

So, Garcia's only beef was no singing? So, "Subterranean Homesick Blues" isn't music. Nor is any instrumental piece.

Idiocy.

No, I consider it to be people talking over music created by others

Is this the thread for out of touch middle aged white men?

Some hip hop is more “musical” than the rest.