re: I have started to believe, the age to vote should be bumped up

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Curious though, why would you take this position?

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To simply streamline the process. It appears our government has a terribly difficult time counting votes correctly.

I know it’s not realistic though.

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If it was somehow limited to only property purchased through income earned through employment...Id still disagree with it but I would disagree a little less.

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Again, I'm not saying that owning property per se should be the criteria.

That is what the FFers chose as a way to limit voting to responsible people.

Let's try it this way—do you think deliberately allowing irresponsible people to vote produces the best electoral results?

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I agree, though my point was that if you want someone to be an adult at 18 but have to wait another 7 years to vote, it's a bit ridiculous.

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First, I disagree with your statement as written as it presupposes that all adults should vote. I don't think that's necessarily true at all. Why is it that you think so? Why should living long enough to be considered an adult (at whatever age that happens) be the sole criteria used to confer arguably the most powerful civic power the average citizen possesses?

Secondly, shouldn't legal adulthood bear some resemblance to people actually acting like adults? Do you think the average 18 year old in 2024 acts like an adult? Can take care of him or herself and be independent from his or her parents? That's what adulthood means, right? I can see 18 year olds acting like that 100 years ago or 200 years ago, but today?

So even though I disagree with the idea that it's an all or nothing proposition, I don't disagree with your suggestion to raise the legal age of adulthood. I don't know what that has to do with SingTFU about young adults, as if redefining young adulthood somehow places those in that group above criticism, but I have no problem with raising the legal age of adulthood. Or at least calling it something else. Maybe you could be an adultolescent between 18-24 and an adult after that.

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Well, no shite.

Furthermore, how many 18 year olds do you know that have money for property purchases?

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Pretty much only ones from wealthy families....which is the point I was making.

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et's try it this way—do you think deliberately allowing irresponsible people to vote produces the best electoral results?

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Irresponsible and best results are pretty broad/vague terms. Some states limit voting rights of felons. What other forms of irresponsibility would you consider disqualifying or likely to produce not the best results? And what are best results?

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And what are best results?

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What do YOU consider the best results?

Once you answer, apply my question to it and I think you'll find that although the phrase is subjective—assuming we're talking about someone answering reasonably and in good faith—there really isn't a scenario or definition of "best results" that deliberately allowing irresponsible people to vote wouldn't undermine.

But I can re-phrase thus: Under what definition of "best electoral results" would the electoral results be enhanced and not undermined by deliberately allowing irresponsible people to vote?

As for the first question, thanks for acknowledging that we already do have a line preventing some irresponsible people from voting. Like the old prostitute joke, we know what we have, now we're just negotiating details. And that's not the only line, either. We don't let five year olds vote. We don't let people declared mentally insane or impaired vote.

I get it. The genie's not going back in the bottle. There are lots of people voting today who drive the lowest common denominator and whom we—at this point—can't wrestle back suffrage from.

But I think it's best to be honest about that. I think it's best to recognize that our system was not designed to function with the voters we have now voting. And in light of that, I don't think it's particularly helpful to exactly define or define all the way to the extremes who we're talking about, as you have asked me to do.

Because 18 year olds are nowhere near those extremes.

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If you aren’t a US citizen, own property or serve in the military you shouldn’t be allowed to vote, period.

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Non-citizens can’t legally vote. If they do, it is because someone is committing voter fraud.

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Maybe not. For all we know, ancient boomers and their predecessors may just stay in power forever at this point.

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Eh, everybody dies eventually. We might be ruled by people in their 70s-90s for the next 20 years though

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Non-citizens can’t legally vote. If they do, it is because someone is committing voter fraud.

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I believe in NY it is now legal in local elections.