re: I have started to believe, the age to vote should be bumped up

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Reply down voter. Tell us who you are, coward.

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Idiot

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subjective morality and moral relativism that guides

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It doesn't guide anything, by definition. You pick what you like and what you pick is no more morally superior than what anyone else picks (including whatever the Bible says). Again, by definition.

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It is morally reprehensible to own and to mistreat another human being of any race, of any creed, or either sex.

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Or not, depending upon who you ask. For the vast majority of human history the vast majority of those you asked would have said it was just fine (including the atheists and humanists, to address that self-congratulatory lie earlier, and I won't even point out that the notion that those still engaging in slave trade in 2024 aren't almost certainly near 100% atheists is patently ridiculous), so according to yourself-described criteria for morality, it was just fine.

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There’s some on this board that believe that the Bible sets objective morality

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I'm here a decent amount and I haven't seen one person say that, so you're going to need to prove that claim.

I have seen people here claim that some transcendent Source is necessary for objective morality to exist—which is, of course, just simple logic—but I have never seen anyone here claim that the Bible is that Source.

Then again, you come here pretty much entirely to distort and lie, so...

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Are there best results or are there just results?

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I think the results are absolutely qualifiable. That's just an opinion, I understand that, but I think the fact that we're going to end up choosing between Joe Biden and Donald Trump (again) for POTUS speaks to that directly. I think we'd get better choices if we had better voters.

But I realize I could be wrong about that.

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Is it just results that benefit the most citizens?

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My criteria would be more serious and thoughtful leaders. People who tried to first discern and then do the right thing instead of just ramming a party agenda down the other side's throat.

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What is the cost of disenfranchisement to achieve those results?

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Great question. What IS the cost of disenfranchisement? An even better question IMO—at least an even better one to ask first, before answering the second one—is why is universal suffrage held as such an ideal in the first place?

It wasn't when the country was founded, and the men who designed our system not only didn't think it was an ideal, but recognized how dangerous it was.

The fact is that not everybody's ideas on how society ought to be run are equally valid, advisable, or preferable. That should be an obvious, self-evident premise, but because we have bought into the idea of "Democracy" instead of a representative republic, we don't even question it. Everybody is supposed to get a vote, which means even a really bad point of view can hold sway if enough people share it, and the fact is that any standard bell curve proves that over half the people in any given population are either at or below average intelligence. How are extraordinarily good ideas supposed to win out in that environment when everyone gets a unit of influence?

I guess the cost of disenfranchisement is that more or less you end up with an oligarchy...but you effectively get that with a "democracy" too, because the paradox is that the Great Unwashed are also easily manipulated. BUT, they have to be manipulated with really bad ideas...so it's almost like you get the worst of all possible worlds with a "democracy."

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You will see it one day when the younger culture completely wipes one side out. You have to understand the next generation will run the country. We will fold once that age gets elected.

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The current generation coming out of high school get their news from social media and music videos. We are fortunate to have Elon Musk but it will take a few more of his caliber to change the mindset instilled from years of "education"

It should be bumped to 27 when “kids” can no longer ride their parents medical insurance. But it won’t be bumped up for the same reason D.C. and Puerto Rico won’t be granted statehood.

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but the other huge influencing components are cultural norms and societal context.

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Which influence what, exactly? Oh that's right. Which influence personal beliefs. You moron.

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Hey dipshit, personal beliefs influence cultural norms and society. Why don’t you state something that makes some kind of rational sense next time rather than circular nonsense.

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Only an idiot believes that slavery was actually morally right in 1840 because society and culture said it was, but since society and culture say otherwise today, it's morally wrong.

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What are you saying? Are trying to build a straw man or something? Try to control you ADHD.

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but people who are angry at God

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Seriously, you couldn’t get any dumber, and you wouldn’t even be able to comprehend my explanation.

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So according to you, the Bible's moral teaching about slavery was right on.

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There you go making shite up again. Why don’t you try not being a lying piece of crap and we could actually maybe have a real discussion on the merits. I had actually stated the opposite - that the Bible was immoral in the subject of slavery.

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In the US, murder is wrong even if there is one idiot or a very small minority that thinks otherwise.

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No, murder is still illegal even if a small minority thinks it's not morally right.

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Ok so if you argue the opposite of my position that murder is wrong, then your argument is murder is morally right. Do you even comprehend the bullshite you write on here?

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I can't quote Foomanchoo, sorry. But that sounds a lot more like one of your intentionally distorted strawmen than the reality of what he claims. Sorry, but I need proof before acquiescing on that. You haven't earned any trust or any benefit of the doubt, as you are a liar.

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Projection: the prime weapon of choice for democrats and religious nuts. Foo has said a thousand times on here that there is an objective moral standard, that it is only because God exists, that God sets the moral standard in his divinely inspired scripture, and Foo is a devotee of Sola Scriptura. If you were only stupid, I’d help you, but since you are also a lazy, untruthful jackass who projects his own faults on others, you can go look up Foo’s posts yourself.

If you decide to change your demeanor and apologize, we can discuss further. Otherwise I’m done with your hypocrite arse.

Matthew 7:12

i think they should bring back literacy tests in order to vote and birth-right citizenship should also end as well