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Posted on 1/12/24 at 12:43 pm to Scuttle But
quote:
Did he actually video the act of the rape? Or just some drunk girl with some aggressive dudes in the car?
Some drunk girl with some aggressive dudes is....RAPE! No need to say it twice.
Posted on 1/12/24 at 1:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but the DA is trying for 1st degree rape (when 3rd degree rape is more appropriate)
Why do you think third degree rape is more appropriate?
Posted on 1/12/24 at 2:00 pm to NIH
quote:
You graduated in 2020 and live in the Woodlands? Dork
Posted on 1/12/24 at 3:39 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
shut the frick up.
You are being a prick. He was trying to answer a direct question and explain the concept that at some point a death is no longer tethered to the felony and thus does not trigger felony murder. Using the word attenuation while discussing felony murder is normal for an attorney, it is a common term of art used for the subject matter that shouldn't be too arcane for laypeople nor trigger a melt.
The question of whether the death is still close enough to trigger felony murder is a question for the trier of fact usually the jury and it isn't just time and distance but all the conditions that occur in between. I don't see it as cut and dried here, but there is still some murk in the facts, and I haven't followed the case very well.
I would mention one way that you might strengthen the connection would be if you could prove the elements of a felony kidnapping continued up to the point she got out of the car.
In the end, felony murder is a bit of a legal fiction or maybe more accurately transferred or constructive intent so it is never very black and white and should be applied with caution.
This post was edited on 1/12/24 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 1/12/24 at 3:54 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
You are being a prick. He was trying to answer a direct question and explain the concept that at some point a death is no longer tethered to the felony and thus does not trigger felony murder. Using the word attenuation while discussing felony murder is normal for an attorney, it is a common term of art used for the subject matter that shouldn't be too arcane for laypeople nor trigger a melt.
The question of whether the death is still close enough to trigger felony murder is a question for the trier of fact usually the jury and it isn't just time and distance but all the conditions that occur in between. I don't see it as cut and dried here, but there is still some murk in the facts, and I haven't followed the case very well.
I would mention one way that you might strengthen the connection would be if you could prove the elements of a felony kidnapping continued up to the point she got out of the car.
In the end, felony murder is a bit of a legal fiction or maybe more accurately transferred or constructive intent so it is never very black and white and should be applied with caution.
sorry, he's been rapist defending since the beginning. I'm kind of tired of it. This was an LSU student from the town i live in and this dude has been running his mouth defending trash rapers over and over and over. They raped this girl and he's obsessive over trying to find technicalities and some sort of angle to support their innocence.
Posted on 1/12/24 at 3:55 pm to lostinbr
quote:
Why do you think third degree rape is more appropriate?
quote:
Third degree rape is a rape committed when the anal, oral, or vaginal sexual intercourse is deemed to be without the lawful consent of a victim because it is committed under any one or more of the following circumstances:
(1) When the victim is incapable of resisting or of understanding the nature of the act by reason of a stupor or abnormal condition of mind produced by an intoxicating agent or any cause and the offender knew or should have known of the victim's incapacity.
Third degree rape seems to fit exactly what's being alleged.
First degree rape is supposed to be more of a gang rape scenario where multiple people were involved in a forceful rape scenarios. Multiple 3rd degree rapes are more separate instances of 3rd degree rape and not the single act referenced in the first degree rape statute.
HOWEVER, I don't have all the evidence and there may be more force involved than has been reported.
Posted on 1/12/24 at 3:57 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
sorry, he's been rapist defending since the beginning
oh Chad.
quote:
and this dude has been running his mouth defending trash rapers over and over and over.
Me saying the prosecution has a lot of problems with their case is not "defending" anyone, Chad. Stop being emotional.
quote:
and he's obsessive over trying to find technicalities and some sort of angle to support their innocence.
The fact that you're being King Snowflake and having a 10/10 melt over me answering a legit question with a legit answer is telling.
This post was edited on 1/12/24 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 1/12/24 at 3:57 pm to Obtuse1
How much attenuation could there be, with only 56 minutes from the time she got in the car until the time the cops were called after she was hit by the car?
Posted on 1/12/24 at 4:00 pm to Rick9Plus
quote:
How much attenuation could there be, with only 56 minutes from the time she got in the car until the time the cops were called after she was hit by the car?
The alleged rapes likely occurred not long after she got in the car, so there is a lot of time after that (probably at least 30 minutes) between the rape and her death. It probably would only take a few minutes of attenuation if they did drop her off in a quiet neighborhood, especially if it's where she wanted to be dropped off.
This post was edited on 1/12/24 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 1/12/24 at 4:11 pm to jdd48
quote:
Maybe the OT attorneys can chime in. Is character assassination as a defense technique just an accepted part of trials and viewed as an attorney defending their client to the best of their ability, or is it sort of frowned upon even though everyone knows it does happen?
It may be frowned upon but it is certainly legal. There's actually a specific carve out in the Louisiana Code of Evidence for this exact scenario.
La. Code of Evidence art. 412A2(a)
Posted on 1/12/24 at 6:18 pm to Rick9Plus
quote:
How much attenuation could there be, with only 56 minutes from the time she got in the car until the time the cops were called after she was hit by the car?
Not a cop out but I don't know the reasonably supported timeline well enough to venture a guess, nor do I know what the typical jury charge for felony murder is in Louisiana.
In general, most jurisdictions don't require a lot of separation to break the felony murder chain. While it is not controlling the most cited case is one out of a Cali appeals court from about 10-12 years ago and IIRC it is State v Young. The court makes a big deal out of safety. So if bank robbers (most used in felony murder hypos) get back to their rally point without the police in hot pursuit the tether is broken.
I'll try to tighten down the hypotheticals so you can apply the facts as you understand them.
Hypo 1:
While taking her to drop her off they one or more of them are still sexually assaulting her in a way that constitutes a felony. When the vehicle stops she hits one of them escapes the vehicle runs into the street and is hit. Felony murder almost certainly attaches.
Hypo 2:
They finish raping her and drive 2 miles and stop and let her out of the vehicle maybe at a spot she chooses. She gets out and they drive off and there is no indication they are following her. She decides to walk 4 blocks to her best friend's apartment and 3 blocks away she crosses a street and is hit. Much lower chance that felony murder attaches.
One thing to keep in mind is because felony murder is essentially a legal fiction courts are reluctant to stretch the connection significantly. In most cases, the connection is very limited and especially so in a case like this where the victim is "free" and there is no (apparent) attempt to continue the felony. Also, it is probably not in the prosecution's best interest to muddy the waters with a felony murder charge unless the rape is a slam dunk.
Posted on 1/12/24 at 6:30 pm to JDPndahizzy
Carver says "they finna rape her" on video.
You only say that if you know for certain 2 things:
- she is completely defenseless and incapacitated (and definitely incapable of remembering any details)
- he knows he is with animals who are dead set on raping
So yes, Carver deserves everything coming to him. He is a partner in the crime of rape.
You only say that if you know for certain 2 things:
- she is completely defenseless and incapacitated (and definitely incapable of remembering any details)
- he knows he is with animals who are dead set on raping
So yes, Carver deserves everything coming to him. He is a partner in the crime of rape.
This post was edited on 1/12/24 at 6:32 pm
Posted on 1/12/24 at 6:51 pm to JAMAC2001
I suspect Carver knew of his buddies past deeds. IOW, he knew he was taking a rabid dog to a kids park.
Posted on 1/12/24 at 7:21 pm to AlwysATgr
No matter what happens in the end, this should be a cautionary tale for parents. Drinking can lead to serious consequences as can associating with the wrong crowd.
Posted on 1/12/24 at 7:42 pm to Rick9Plus
That is not what flipped means. Flippers are gangbangees. They let all the homies run a train.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 7:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
First degree rape is supposed to be more of a gang rape scenario where multiple people were involved in a forceful rape scenarios. Multiple 3rd degree rapes are more separate instances of 3rd degree rape and not the single act referenced in the first degree rape statute.
If that’s the case, why even include language about multiple participants in the statute? If it only applies to actions that would already be first degree rape, it seems a bit pointless.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 8:24 am to lostinbr
quote:
If it only applies to actions that would already be first degree rape, it seems a bit pointless.
That would be more of a 2nd degree rape committed by multiple people at the same time. As of now, there is no indication threats, weapons, or overriding force was used.
In LA, the 2nd degree rape definition that would fit the realistic hypothetical is:
quote:
(1) When the victim is prevented from resisting the act by force or threats of physical violence under circumstances where the victim reasonably believes that such resistance would not prevent the rape.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 8:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That would be more of a 2nd degree rape committed by multiple people at the same time. As of now, there is no indication threats, weapons, or overriding force was used.
So you’re saying the “multiple participants” language in the statute is only intended to apply to a hypothetical “second degree rape” definition that doesn’t exist under LA law?
That seems like a bit of a stretch to me.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 9:14 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
overriding force
I thought there was some record where she told one of them to get off her.
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