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Head Coach Recruiting: CBK vs CEO
Posted on 9/30/23 at 10:01 pm
Posted on 9/30/23 at 10:01 pm
It’s pretty well known that CEO’s entire identity as a coach was based on recruiting at a high level, where CBK’s is more based around strategy, development, preparation, on-field coaching, etc.
CEO was a better recruiter, but still wasn’t flawless. He was terrible at OLine recruiting, and his scouting/ identifying was also questionable. He was solid at going and getting who he wanted, and put together strong classes. There’s not much he wouldn’t do to land a high end recruit.
CBK, IMO, has the opposite problem. CEO was great at DL recruitment and terrible with the OLine, but Kelly is good with OLine recruitment and terrible with DL. CBK loses more head to head battles than CEO. CBK relies more on camps and in depth scouting than CEO, who relied more on recruiting rankings… which isn’t always a bad thing.
Maybe this is mostly an NIL issue, but the point I’m getting at is that CBK has some recruiting issues and I’m not sure about his urgency in that area. Guys like CEO, Dabo, Kirby, etc., will do whatever it takes to bring in top talent. They know that they need it, and you can’t overcome talent discrepancies in CFB.
Also, the best programs are balanced with their recruiting. Bama, UGA, and Ohio State usually have strong AND balanced classes. We can’t seem to manage that. Right now, we have one 3 star DT committed and very few left on the board. We signed zero (0) DTs last year, and two 3 star DTs the year before if you count West as one.
CEO was a better recruiter, but still wasn’t flawless. He was terrible at OLine recruiting, and his scouting/ identifying was also questionable. He was solid at going and getting who he wanted, and put together strong classes. There’s not much he wouldn’t do to land a high end recruit.
CBK, IMO, has the opposite problem. CEO was great at DL recruitment and terrible with the OLine, but Kelly is good with OLine recruitment and terrible with DL. CBK loses more head to head battles than CEO. CBK relies more on camps and in depth scouting than CEO, who relied more on recruiting rankings… which isn’t always a bad thing.
Maybe this is mostly an NIL issue, but the point I’m getting at is that CBK has some recruiting issues and I’m not sure about his urgency in that area. Guys like CEO, Dabo, Kirby, etc., will do whatever it takes to bring in top talent. They know that they need it, and you can’t overcome talent discrepancies in CFB.
Also, the best programs are balanced with their recruiting. Bama, UGA, and Ohio State usually have strong AND balanced classes. We can’t seem to manage that. Right now, we have one 3 star DT committed and very few left on the board. We signed zero (0) DTs last year, and two 3 star DTs the year before if you count West as one.
This post was edited on 9/30/23 at 10:02 pm
11
Posted on 9/30/23 at 10:11 pm to 304tiger
quote:
CBK’s is more based around strategy, development, preparation, on-field coaching, etc.
if that's the case, then we are absolutely fricked b/c our strategy is terrible, we aren't developing anyone, we don't look prepared to face good teams, and there have been multiple times where you have to question his ability to actually coach
Posted on 9/30/23 at 10:13 pm to 304tiger
I can’t remember how much money we are still paying Eaux. Can we bring him back as Head of Recruiting since we are paying him anyway?
Posted on 9/30/23 at 10:14 pm to chRxis
Absolutely. His “strengths” aren’t making an impact, and shouldn’t make anyone feel better about our subpar recruiting.
Posted on 9/30/23 at 10:15 pm to 304tiger
I know this will sound crazy but I promise I can fix our recruiting. I care enough to want to make a difference.
Nobody liked my joke
Nobody liked my joke
This post was edited on 10/1/23 at 5:08 am
Posted on 9/30/23 at 10:20 pm to jafari rastaman
I don’t miss him, but I miss the effort he put into recruiting. He would make a fool of himself if it led to bringing in a top recruit. It reminded me of Dabo or Jimbo.
ND fans said from the start that he was laid back with recruiting and I feel like we’re seeing it now. Just look at the head to head battles we’ve lost lately.
ND fans said from the start that he was laid back with recruiting and I feel like we’re seeing it now. Just look at the head to head battles we’ve lost lately.
This post was edited on 9/30/23 at 10:24 pm
Posted on 9/30/23 at 11:31 pm to 304tiger
I think it's Kelly's philosophy that is part of the problem.
He will settle more than most coaches. Doesn't have that killer instinct needed to be an elite recruiters. He relies on his staff.
Have to upgrade the staff. That much is clear
He will settle more than most coaches. Doesn't have that killer instinct needed to be an elite recruiters. He relies on his staff.
Have to upgrade the staff. That much is clear
Posted on 10/1/23 at 3:02 am to 304tiger
I was a good recruiter in that he could go get guys
he wasn’t a good roster managerX he would let positions become problems then try and fix them in a class.
go look at his DL recruiting between the 2016 and 2020 class.
rough.
we need to get DTs. i’d keep hammering McKinley. pass the ducking hat around if that’s what it takes and then hit the portal
he wasn’t a good roster managerX he would let positions become problems then try and fix them in a class.
go look at his DL recruiting between the 2016 and 2020 class.
rough.
we need to get DTs. i’d keep hammering McKinley. pass the ducking hat around if that’s what it takes and then hit the portal
Posted on 10/1/23 at 9:15 am to SammyTiger
This is exactly who O is. If he is given a list of guys to go get, he is one of the best and will do any tho g to get them. If he has to make the list, then he is fricked, he will go after all the high ranked guys and not actually build a team.
LSU knew who O was, yet tried to make him into something he was not.
LSU knew who O was, yet tried to make him into something he was not.
This post was edited on 10/1/23 at 9:16 am
Posted on 10/1/23 at 9:21 am to Captain Crown
I propose CC as head of recruiting.
And I'll assist him in South FL...
And I'll assist him in South FL...
Posted on 10/1/23 at 11:29 am to 304tiger
quote:
It’s pretty well known that CEO’s entire identity as a coach was based on recruiting at a high level, where CBK’s is more based around strategy, development, preparation, on-field coaching, etc.
You had better go examine Orgeron's 2018,2019,and 2020 classes; basically they were terrible and that is why we are where we are today.
Posted on 10/1/23 at 1:30 pm to chRxis
quote:
if that's the case, then we are absolutely fricked b/c our strategy is terrible, we aren't developing anyone, we don't look prepared to face good teams, and there have been multiple times where you have to question his ability to actually coach
So the offensive players haven’t been developed?
Posted on 10/1/23 at 1:54 pm to 304tiger
quote:
His “strengths” aren’t making an impact, and shouldn’t make anyone feel better about our subpar recruiting.
the offense is pretty good.
Posted on 10/1/23 at 2:11 pm to 304tiger
quote:
He was solid at going and getting who he wanted, and put together strong classes
He was so good at this when signing day rolled around top end recruits usually signed with other schools
Posted on 10/1/23 at 7:11 pm to 304tiger
I agree
Posted on 10/1/23 at 8:12 pm to 304tiger
quote:39 scholarship players
CEO’s entire identity as a coach was based on recruiting at a high level
quote:
CEO was a better recruiter
39 scholarship players
quote:
put together strong classes
39 scholarship players
quote:
CEO will do whatever it takes to bring in top talent
39 scholarship players
Posted on 10/1/23 at 9:07 pm to jmon
CEO tenure:
2016 - 27 commits | #3 class
2017 - 24 commits | #7 class
2018 - 22 commits | #15 class (not a good one)
2019 - 25 commits | #5 class
2020 - 22 commits | #4 class
2021 - 24 commits | #4 class
Yeah, obviously we had 39 scholarship players during the HC turnover. The 2022 class bailed when CEO was being forced out, which is not uncommon. There was also the transfer portal. No one said he was good at roster management, but he consistently put together strong classes.
Ultimately, he put together solid class numbers with the 25 man cap, and had an average class ranking of 6 which includes one bad year. The 39 man scholarship issue wasn’t due to his recruiting, but his roster management and termination, which is not the topic here.
2016 - 27 commits | #3 class
2017 - 24 commits | #7 class
2018 - 22 commits | #15 class (not a good one)
2019 - 25 commits | #5 class
2020 - 22 commits | #4 class
2021 - 24 commits | #4 class
Yeah, obviously we had 39 scholarship players during the HC turnover. The 2022 class bailed when CEO was being forced out, which is not uncommon. There was also the transfer portal. No one said he was good at roster management, but he consistently put together strong classes.
Ultimately, he put together solid class numbers with the 25 man cap, and had an average class ranking of 6 which includes one bad year. The 39 man scholarship issue wasn’t due to his recruiting, but his roster management and termination, which is not the topic here.
This post was edited on 10/1/23 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 10/2/23 at 9:02 am to 304tiger
So those 2020 and 2021 teams must have been amazing under CEO? The players were bailing long before CEO's tenure was coming to an end. He left this program in shambles.
Posted on 10/2/23 at 8:35 pm to 304tiger
CEO’s recruiting classes were ranked high but he had a very high bust/attrition rate. I do like how bk seems to have hit on his classes from top to bottom. Also roster management is a major component of recruiting IMO and CEO’s team fell apart after Covid and a whirlwind of negativity in 2020 that he was unable to recover from.
Posted on 10/2/23 at 9:08 pm to jmon
He recruited guys that were ranked high, but ended up being busts (Webb, Sampah, Toles, Josh White, Dumervil, McGhee, etc.). It could’ve been poor scouting or development, but he still won some big recruiting battles.
The 2020 and 2021 team failures were due to opt outs, bad coaching/ coordinators, bad scheming, bad strength and conditioning, bad QB play, and other areas. It was a mess, but not because of recruiting. He just wasn’t a good HC.
Kelly’s issues either are or will be due to poor recruiting compared to the competition.
The 2020 and 2021 team failures were due to opt outs, bad coaching/ coordinators, bad scheming, bad strength and conditioning, bad QB play, and other areas. It was a mess, but not because of recruiting. He just wasn’t a good HC.
Kelly’s issues either are or will be due to poor recruiting compared to the competition.
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