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Started By
Message
Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:18 am
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:18 am
And if so, why did we allow this to happen after using it as the basis to end the cold war?
11
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:22 am to RoosterCogburn585
Because on a global level, America hasn't been a good actor since before I can remember (I'm 38).
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:25 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Because on a global level, America hasn't been a good actor since before I can remember (I'm 38).
This ^^^ has been a difficult revelation to accept.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:26 am to RoosterCogburn585
Truth is, we lost our shite over the Cuban “missile crisis”, but NATO admitting Ukraine is like Russia setting up shop in Indiana.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:30 am to RoosterCogburn585
(s)Mearsheimer in 1995 said the Ukraine should not give up its nukes because the nature of Russia was to conquer neighboring nations.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:30 am to Pvt Hudson
quote:
Russia setting up shop in Indiana.
Stranger Things have happened.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:31 am to RoosterCogburn585
Exactly.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:32 am to Pvt Hudson
i think the promise made was verbal and not in writing. so the question is, can you trust americas word. when america built those missle sites in poland and romania, george w bush said they were to protect against incoming missles from iran. i doubt russia believes anything we say anymore.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:32 am to RoosterCogburn585
quote:
Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?
Yes.
quote:
why did we allow this to happen after using it as the basis to end the cold war?
Because our political and military leaders are dishonest and, once the Soviet Union was no longer in a position to effectively counter our power and influence, became drunk with power and corruption through indulgence of greed and naive philosophies as we spread war and death across the globe continuously unchecked for 30 years now.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:34 am to RoosterCogburn585
The USSR collapsed (Cold war ended) because it was morally and economically bankrupt and of Nationalism. Captive nations, Poles, Czechs etc and republics Estonians, Latvians, Ukrainians, etc., wanted independence.
If Russia did not continue predatory practices in their near abroad these sovereign states would have had no need for NATO.
If Russia did not continue predatory practices in their near abroad these sovereign states would have had no need for NATO.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:38 am to CitizenK
quote:1993.
Mearsheimer in 1995
And IIRC, Mearsheimer was one of the voices encouraging NATO expansion subsequent to Yeltsin's election.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:41 am to CarrolltonTiger
quote:Examples in the 1992-1999 timeframe?
If Russia did not continue predatory practices
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:42 am to Pvt Hudson
quote:
but NATO admitting Ukraine is like Russia setting up shop in Indiana.
And NATO didn't admit Ukraine
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:46 am to Powerman
quote:In 2008 NATO issued one of the most diplomatically braindead proclamations in history. NATO stated Ukraine WILL BECOME a member of NATO.
And NATO didn't admit Ukraine
When Biden relit and advanced Obama's conversations to that effect, war was inevitable.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:52 am to CarrolltonTiger
LINK i always thought this article was interesting. USA was very involved in the collapse of russia.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 7:53 am to NC_Tigah
Transnistria, First Chechen War, Assassination of Gamsahurdia,...
Posted on 1/30/23 at 8:08 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
This ^^^ has been a difficult revelation to accept.
It’s not a good feeling to realize your leaders aren’t the good guys.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 8:34 am to RoosterCogburn585
As I understand it, it wasn't in an official agreement, but more of back channel promises made.
There are some good videos on the history of this time period and later with the Obama admin.
Good read on the 2014 Coup.
Strategic Culture Foundation
Provocations by US/west supporting Ukraine offensive prior to Russian invasion, Ukraine wanting to acquire nukes against 1994 agreement, etc.
Strategic Cultural Foundation 2
Video of referenced Mearshiemer from 7 yrs ago.
YT
Video of Russian American Journalist, who says that US helped create the current Putin. Very Interesting.
YT
There are some good videos on the history of this time period and later with the Obama admin.
Good read on the 2014 Coup.
Strategic Culture Foundation
Provocations by US/west supporting Ukraine offensive prior to Russian invasion, Ukraine wanting to acquire nukes against 1994 agreement, etc.
Strategic Cultural Foundation 2
Video of referenced Mearshiemer from 7 yrs ago.
YT
Video of Russian American Journalist, who says that US helped create the current Putin. Very Interesting.
YT
Posted on 1/30/23 at 8:45 am to NC_Tigah
Years ago Dick Morris let the cat out of the bag in terms of Ukraine vis a vis a missle system we were putting in Poland. He said that it was all about building a land bridge to Ukraine.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 8:53 am to texas tortilla
quote:
i always thought this article was interesting. USA was very involved in the collapse of russia.
Actually, the USA was for the status quo for the USSR. See George Bush Chicken Kiev speech where he plead with the Ukrainians to remain part of the UNION.
Nationalism destroyed the Soviet Union, from within. Both the Satellite States and the constituent Republics wanted independence and freedom.
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