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quote:
But not from, or necessarily by, the USSR. Yet our retaliation would constitute a first strike against the USSR.
It just goes to show how quickly these things can get out of hand. The DoD focus was entirely on Cuban missiles.
I certainly understand that, just saying JFK never said if you don’t get out of Cuba we are launching a nuclear war.
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by RuLSU 
on 1/30/23 at 12:53 pm to RogerTheShrubber
on 1/30/23 at 12:53 pm to RogerTheShrubberquote:
Cuba.
Which they tried and we threatened nuclear war.
We are hypocrites of the highest order.
Often forgotten: the US stationed Jupiter/Nuclear warheads in Turkey, which Russia felt threatened by.
Russia retaliated by putting weapons in Cuba.
Yes, Russia relented on Cuba. The United States also relented on Turkey.
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by RogerTheShrubber 
on 1/30/23 at 12:54 pm to RuLSU
on 1/30/23 at 12:54 pm to RuLSUquote:
Often forgotten: the US stationed Jupiter/Nuclear warheads in Turkey, which Russia felt threatened by.
There's no real good guys here. We push them, they push us..
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by Zarkinletch416 
on 1/30/23 at 12:54 pm to RoosterCogburn585
on 1/30/23 at 12:54 pm to RoosterCogburn585Yes. Then-Secretary of State James A. Baker III to Mikhail Gorbachev.......
“There would be no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east."
It was left to Potatus (aka Creepy Joe Biden) to throw gasoline on the simmering fire when just about the time Russia invaded Ukraine, the buffoon argued NATO should approve Ukraine's application for entrance to NATO. I recall Potatus saying that, whereupon I whispered - somebody, anybody tell that baffoon to STFU.
That was all the excuse tyrant Vlad Putin needed to invade Ukraine.
Make no mistake Biden groupies, Ukraine will not win this war. Furthermore, those 31 Abrams MBTs Potatus sent will arrive in Ukraine just in time for the Ruskies to capture them. Then they will regroup and point the guns on those Abrams Tanks toward Poland.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up" - Barack Hussein Obama
War is hell. Choosing leaders certifiably buffoon is worse.
“There would be no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east."
It was left to Potatus (aka Creepy Joe Biden) to throw gasoline on the simmering fire when just about the time Russia invaded Ukraine, the buffoon argued NATO should approve Ukraine's application for entrance to NATO. I recall Potatus saying that, whereupon I whispered - somebody, anybody tell that baffoon to STFU.
That was all the excuse tyrant Vlad Putin needed to invade Ukraine.
Make no mistake Biden groupies, Ukraine will not win this war. Furthermore, those 31 Abrams MBTs Potatus sent will arrive in Ukraine just in time for the Ruskies to capture them. Then they will regroup and point the guns on those Abrams Tanks toward Poland.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up" - Barack Hussein Obama
War is hell. Choosing leaders certifiably buffoon is worse.
This post was edited on 1/30 at 1:25 pm
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by doubleb on 1/30/23 at 12:55 pm to RogerTheShrubber
on 1/30/23 at 12:55 pm to RogerTheShrubberquote:
We moved missiles into Turkey
Yes we did. What’s wrong with that?
quote:
tried to overthrow Cuba's government.
Yes we did. A government that overthrew the previous dictator, a communist government, a government that stole most of the private property hurting US interests, and a government allied with Russia. A government that was opposed by thousands of Cubans.
What’s wrong with that?
[
quote]The truth is, you just accept the double standards.[/quote]
The truth is I’m like Trump. I put America first.
This post was edited on 1/30 at 1:06 pm
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by blueridgeTiger 
on 1/30/23 at 12:55 pm to CarrolltonTiger
on 1/30/23 at 12:55 pm to CarrolltonTigerquote:
The USSR collapsed (Cold war ended) because it was morally and economically bankrupt and of Nationalism. Captive nations, Poles, Czechs etc and republics Estonians, Latvians, Ukrainians, etc., wanted independence.
With prodding from Reagan, Thatcher and Pope John Paul II.
quote:
I admire the Ukrainians for standing up against a foreign invader
Biden could have haeded this thing off a long time ago, as could Obama, but didn't.
I'm not at all convinced this is about poor Ukrainians earning their 1776, but rather corrupt politicians having an unfettered playground to run all their illegal shite through.
Make no mistake, if Putin wanted Ukraine back, he could shut that shite down rather quickly. Ukraine is not defeating Russia without international help on the grounf their.
quote:We'll never know, will we?
I'm really skeptical the degree to which Russia had market liberals who would have won the power struggle
Bill Clinton was too busy wetting his cigar, ordering pizza, and messing up 'blew' dresses to be bothered making inroads with the world's other nuclear superpower.
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re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by CarrolltonTiger on 1/30/23 at 12:57 pm to crazy4lsu
on 1/30/23 at 12:57 pm to crazy4lsuquote:
I'm really skeptical the degree to which Russia had market liberals who would have won the power struggle between right and left wings, both of whom had revanchist aspirations.
Who was the right and who was the left in 1991? (communist versus democrat activist)
quote:
Russia turned its back on that sort of integration many times.
Reform was probably impossible, 70 + years of Communism was worse than the 45 years Eastern Europeans endured, it is at least another generation of fricked up people. Outside of St Petersburg,Moscow and perhaps Yekaterinburg there were few interested in democracy or change. The corrupt nomenclature held the power to resist.
Had Yeltsin might not have been a drunk Russia may have had an outside shot as he had great respect initially. The driving force in the Republics and Captive Nations was nationalism.
quote:What would he have said if he didn't have total naval control of The GOM/Caribbean, and a blockade was impossible? That's a bit more apropos to Putin's situation.
I certainly understand that, just saying JFK never said if you don’t get out of Cuba we are launching a nuclear war.
quote:
What would he have said if he didn't have total naval control of The GOM/Caribbean, and a blockade was impossible? That's a bit more apropos to Putin's situation.
We can play what if all day.
What if Putin had no desire on Crimea or a land bridge to Crimea? Would there have been a war in Ukraine since 2014?
quote:In response to a US backed overthrow of the Ukrainian government? Given that nuance, Putin would have been a strategic imbecile to risk ex-Soviet Naval Bases and control of the Black Sea falling into NATO's hands.
What if Putin had no desire on Crimea or a land bridge to Crimea?
quote:100%
Would there have been a war in Ukraine since 2014?
quote:
In response to a US backed overthrow of the Ukrainian government? Given that nuance, Putin would have been a strategic imbecile to risk ex-Soviet Naval Bases and control of the Black Sea falling into NATO's hands.
No, Putin had designs on Crimea from day one, quit trying to change my what if. Stick with your own what ifs.
:-)
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by Diamondawg 
on 1/30/23 at 4:08 pm to TigerFanatic99
on 1/30/23 at 4:08 pm to TigerFanatic99quote:I was draft age during the end of the Vietnam War.
Because on a global level, America hasn't been a good actor since before I can remember (I'm 38).
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by Gaspergou202 on 1/30/23 at 4:09 pm to NC_Tigah
on 1/30/23 at 4:09 pm to NC_Tigahquote:
Comical? That is interesting. What other years of Yeltsin's tenure as the first elected Russian President would you choose?
So ….
You’re trying to say that the world at large should judge the centuries of Russian aggression against its smaller neighbors for the “Seven years of Yeltsin?
Well Russia was an economic basket case during those years and could hardly afford to invade the Chechens! But Yeltsin did!!! He got his arse handed to him however.
So in 7 years a prostrate Russia under Boris Yeltsin invaded s smaller nation, and he promoted Putin to follow him as leader!
Yeltsin hardly appears to be a giant peacenik! LOL.
I still taste cherries.
re: Was Russia Promised that Nato Wouldnt Expand to the East on inch?Posted by honeybadger07 on 1/31/23 at 9:23 am to RoosterCogburn585
on 1/31/23 at 9:23 am to RoosterCogburn585Biden is on video in the 90's saying expanding NATO to include Ukraine would be the worst thing to instigate a war with Russia...yet here we are.
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