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Is Henry Kissinger's reason for Russian invasion of Ukraine wrong?
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:05 am
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:05 am
quote:
Mr. Kissinger courted controversy earlier this year by suggesting that incautious policies on the part of the U.S. and NATO may have touched off the crisis in Ukraine. He sees no choice but to take Vladimir Putin’s stated security concerns seriously and believes that it was a mistake for NATO to signal to Ukraine that it might eventually join the alliance: “I thought that Poland—all the traditional Western countries that have been part of Western history—were logical members of NATO,” he says. But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not. Stability would be better served by its acting as a buffer between Russia and the West: “I was in favor of the full independence of Ukraine, but I thought its best role was something like Finland.”
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward into Ukraine, no?
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Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:09 am to GumboPot
Putin invading kind of validates Ukraine's concerns.
Simplest explanation is Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire.
Simplest explanation is Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:09 am to GumboPot
follow the money
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:10 am to GumboPot
quote:
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward
Yes! The US was soooooooo aggressive when Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria applied for membership to a defensive alliance.
Such aggression. We should have vetoed their membership applications, because we all know that Russia alone has the unilateral authority to dictate the foreign policy of every country that has ever been administered from Moscow.
I just cannot believe that the US was sooooo aggressive when those countries applied for membership. Pure, naked aggression.
quote:
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward into Ukraine, no?
Ukraine is and was nowhere close to becoming a NATO member. But, in any event, as stated previously, Russia gets to dictate what other countries do.
This post was edited on 9/28/22 at 11:11 am
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:12 am to GumboPot
quote:
But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not.
He is right. Russia and Ukraine have been in a struggle for centuries now. Lots of ethnic Russians all over Ukraine.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:13 am to GumboPot
He's essentially correct. In military history the term was 'encirclement.' Nations become edgy when enemies increase territory around them. It's part of the reason behind The Monroe Doctrine.
In recent years NATO has been increasing their territory toward Russia.
Throughout history encirclement that is unopposed has resulted in the invasion of the encircled country.
In recent years NATO has been increasing their territory toward Russia.
Throughout history encirclement that is unopposed has resulted in the invasion of the encircled country.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:16 am to GumboPot
I suspect Kissinger is largely, if not entirely correct, but this in no way excuses Russia's barbarous invasion of a peaceful neighbor.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:17 am to GumboPot
quote:
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive
Lol. I didn’t realize it was aggressive for countries to determine their own fate, and what alliances they choose…
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:19 am to GumboPot
quote:ya think?
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward into Ukraine, no?
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:32 am to GumboPot
The hegemonic US banksters have now declared war in the average German citizen by attacking the pipeline. When the Germans suffer this winter hopefully they decide to overthrow the US puppets in Germany and force the US military out of Germany and retake their land, self determination, and economy.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:45 am to GumboPot
The current CIA director, a former CIA director, and several political analysts and academics have said for at least 20 years that Ukraine to NATO was a red line for Russia. Mearsheimer said in 2015 the west was leading Ukraine leading down a primrose path and they were going to get wrecked. But, hey, it's irrational Putin propaganda to discuss that.
None of that gets into the color revolution we backed and Ukraine's failure to recognize Minsk II and 14,000 dead in the Donbas since then.
None of that gets into the color revolution we backed and Ukraine's failure to recognize Minsk II and 14,000 dead in the Donbas since then.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:47 am to GumboPot
quote:
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward into Ukraine, no?
The problem is denying sovereign nations entry into a benign organization because of an insecure and irrational actor (who is just using this as a excuse anyway)
Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:54 am to GumboPot
quote:
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward into Ukraine, no?
This is like pontificating on whether it was a good idea to have stabbed the bear with a sharp point after it has already bitten off your limbs.
It's pointless.
This post was edited on 9/28/22 at 11:55 am
Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:12 pm to GumboPot
quote:
“I thought that Poland—all the traditional Western countries that have been part of Western history—were logical members of NATO,” he says. But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not. Stability would be better served by its acting as a buffer between Russia and the West: “I was in favor of the full independence of Ukraine, but I thought its best role was something like Finland.”
What an insane reading of European history.
quote:
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward into Ukraine, no?
But it was Warsaw Pact countries that drove the expansion, starting in 1991.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:22 pm to GumboPot
Putin agreed with Kissinger…he said numerous times that NATO expansion into Ukraine was unacceptable. (Trump agreed.)
Biden ignored this and signaled support for NATO expansion, provoking Putin.
Putin invades due to said provocation.
Biden/the liberal West: Unprovoked aggression, Reeeeee!
Putin: SMDH
Biden ignored this and signaled support for NATO expansion, provoking Putin.
Putin invades due to said provocation.
Biden/the liberal West: Unprovoked aggression, Reeeeee!
Putin: SMDH
Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:30 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Maybe the U.S. was a little too aggressive in their desire to expand NATO eastward into Ukraine, no?
I said this early on. We had as a country given our word and then decided to ignore it. Actions have consequences. The radical left should have found a different money laundering locale.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:37 pm to GumboPot
I’ve said this all along.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:37 pm to GumboPot
Kissinger is overthinking this question.
Putin took over Georgia and Crimea and it had nothing to do eith NATO so why is Ukraine any different?
Putin took over Georgia and Crimea and it had nothing to do eith NATO so why is Ukraine any different?
Posted on 9/28/22 at 1:15 pm to GumboPot
NATO expansion is viewed by Russians as encirclement.
NATO expansion is actually about securing more military contracts for the American MIC.
People are dying in Ukraine over billion dollar contracts for military equipment.
NATO expansion is actually about securing more military contracts for the American MIC.
People are dying in Ukraine over billion dollar contracts for military equipment.
This post was edited on 9/28/22 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 9/28/22 at 1:18 pm to GumboPot
quote:What is Finland’s status?
I thought its best role was something like Finland.
“Joining NATO,” as I recall.
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