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Started By
Message
Do Navy SEALS Have a Problem?
Posted on 9/4/22 at 11:55 pm
Posted on 9/4/22 at 11:55 pm
The NYT asks is SEAL training too brutal? Recently a recruit died during training and it's made some headlines. The recruit was coughing up blood for a week and continued through the training. He coughed up enough blood to fill a 36 oz. bottle. (Despite this, he still made it through hell week). Right after hell week, the recruit collapsed. Ambulance was called and he died on the way to hospital. Autopsy showed he had bacterial pneumonia. This recruit was 24 years old and former defensive end for the Yale football team.
Now, after that recruit died, the Navy found performance enhancing drugs in his car. They decided to test everyone in the class and found 40 dudes with PED's in their system. So the NYT was trying to turn this into another scandal. They were basically insinuating that if very fit young men have to resort to drugs to make it, then the training is too hard. NYT said "Many who make it through use performance enhancing drugs." I am sorry, but I don't believe this. Men were making it through before there were PED's out there.
The Navy, to my understanding, has not modified BUD/s much at all in many decades. It's the same as it has always been. The timed swimming requirements are the same, the amount of time spent in the freezing Pacific is the same. The amount of running is the same. And the lack of sleep is the same (you get 4 hours of sleep during hell week - enough to result in hallucinations, which is the point). Only 20% who start BUD/s make it through and then another few percent will drop out later (that number has stayed about the same forever).
What say you? Is the Navy reckless or is it just "a few people will die, but we shouldn't lower the standards" type of thing?
Now, after that recruit died, the Navy found performance enhancing drugs in his car. They decided to test everyone in the class and found 40 dudes with PED's in their system. So the NYT was trying to turn this into another scandal. They were basically insinuating that if very fit young men have to resort to drugs to make it, then the training is too hard. NYT said "Many who make it through use performance enhancing drugs." I am sorry, but I don't believe this. Men were making it through before there were PED's out there.
The Navy, to my understanding, has not modified BUD/s much at all in many decades. It's the same as it has always been. The timed swimming requirements are the same, the amount of time spent in the freezing Pacific is the same. The amount of running is the same. And the lack of sleep is the same (you get 4 hours of sleep during hell week - enough to result in hallucinations, which is the point). Only 20% who start BUD/s make it through and then another few percent will drop out later (that number has stayed about the same forever).
What say you? Is the Navy reckless or is it just "a few people will die, but we shouldn't lower the standards" type of thing?
32
Posted on 9/4/22 at 11:58 pm to AUstar
Their choice to go through the training that is well documented... they know what they are getting to and they understand the risks.
Posted on 9/4/22 at 11:59 pm to AUstar
I doubt many Seals would want to lower the standards. They know what they're getting into. We need people this tough. When I was in the Army 20 years ago SF constantly tried to recruit some of us with high PT and Asvab scores. I knew my body wouldn't make it through so I didn't do it. They are volunteers.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 12:00 am to AUstar
quote:I say frick tNYT whatever they say
What say you?
Posted on 9/5/22 at 12:01 am to Zahrim
Why anyone would join the military in this day is beyond me. Go watch the interview Gallagher did if you want to know how today's military is handled.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 12:16 am to AUstar
I don’t think the training is the problem. I think it’s more the mindset that “I need to be as big and strong as possible” to succeed. Oftentimes though it’s not the biggest and the strongest that survive. It’s the opposite… perfect example would be those American Ninja Warrior shows on tv. The jacked as frick guys typically struggle while the smaller guys tend to excel. Two completely different scenarios but at a certain point size starts to work against you.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 12:27 am to Blizzard of Chizz
Stuff happens. Sometimes bad stuff happens when you are doing dangerous stuff. It is sad when training tragedies happen, but you will never eliminate all of them just like you will never eliminate friendly fire incidents.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 1:25 am to Goforit
quote:
Stuff happens. Sometimes bad stuff happens when you are doing dangerous stuff. It is sad when training tragedies happen, but you will never eliminate all of them just like you will never eliminate friendly fire incidents.
We can if we completely ban guns!!
Posted on 9/5/22 at 1:31 am to AUstar
The little squirrel journalist typing on his laptop and sipping a soy latte probably envisions a SEAL training program to be run like a kindergarten class- hugs, participations trophies, nap and snack time. There is a reason why the standards are high and the training is rigorous. It’s an elite fighting force, not a social experiment.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 2:18 am to AUstar
Well.
If everyone can’t make it through the most elite fighting school on earth then it probably is too hard.
This a-hole should probably be in charge of something.
If everyone can’t make it through the most elite fighting school on earth then it probably is too hard.
This a-hole should probably be in charge of something.
This post was edited on 9/5/22 at 2:32 am
Posted on 9/5/22 at 3:40 am to AUstar
Not trying to agree with a non-binary stink arse at the NYT but it is very common for SOF to juice.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 4:40 am to AUstar
quote:
The Navy, to my understanding, has not modified BUD/s much at all in many decades. It's the same as it has always been.
quote:
Only 20% who start BUD/s make it through and then another few percent will drop out later (that number has stayed about the same forever).
During the WoT the numbers making it through hell week increased due to staffing demands. The DoD/Navy had a fairly rapid increase in the number of SEALs on active duty. To fill that need they “allowed” more people to make it through.
I’m not sure if the staffing needs has ever dropped back down or not. The training itself didn’t officially change, but in the past they may have kept pushing until X were left standing, during the increase X was a bigger number.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 5:20 am to AUstar
quote:
Do Navy SEALS Have a Problem?
Yes...their lack of leadership and way too many missions
Posted on 9/5/22 at 5:24 am to AUstar
Considering the SEALs will likely be used against Americans in my lifetime, I'd like their training to stop completely.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 5:26 am to cokebottleag
quote:
Considering the SEALs will likely be used against Americans in my lifetime
This won't work out they way they think it will; SEALs are pretty smart and much more patriotic than their leaders.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 6:17 am to Wtodd
Posted on 9/5/22 at 6:34 am to AUstar
There are enough guys who do make it through the training that I think it is reasonable. It is the preparation needed for the extreme situations these guys will face later.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 6:53 am to AUstar
I think I prefer our special operations community to be on performance enhancing drugs. We know the enemy surely is.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 6:59 am to AUstar
They need a physician. One who was a SEAL or special forces of some type.
A simple chest X-ray could have got this guy pulled. Treat like the extreme athletes that they are. Have a doc, like I said, who understands the program and training.
I’m sure they have access to medical but have to ask for it. Like an athlete they need that decision taken away.
A simple chest X-ray could have got this guy pulled. Treat like the extreme athletes that they are. Have a doc, like I said, who understands the program and training.
I’m sure they have access to medical but have to ask for it. Like an athlete they need that decision taken away.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 7:01 am to Big Jim Slade
quote:
It’s an elite fighting force, not a social experiment.
Not for long if they get their way with things. I've been watching them destroy everything good about serving your country in the military (from the inside and out) since the early 80's, mid 90's is where it really starting going to shite, by the late 90's I walked away.
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