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re: Judge rules against St. George incorporation
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:12 am to ProjectP2294
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:12 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
said the incorporation would harm the city of Baton Rouge.
So- the city of BR will not survive with its current leadership unless illegally spending taxpayer dollars.
0
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:58 am to BigJim
Yall the join the rest of us in Texas!
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:03 am to tketaco
When Mississippi, Arkansas, and Alabama are looking like viable options, things are all kinds of fricked up.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:57 am to teke184
Posted on 6/1/22 at 10:48 am to BigJim
I read the judge's ruling. It seems as if though the biggest issue that is preventing the incorporation from happening is the $3 million deficit that the City of St. George would be running on day one due to the estimated cost of pension and other post-employment benefits that are paid to City-Parish Employees. Also, it appears that the incorporators did not meet with the EBR Sheriff to determine what monetary contribution the City of St. George would make to have the EBR Sheriff provide additional public safety services.
It looks like there was an attempted bait and switch by incorporators trying to get people to vote for incorporation, promising no tax increases, but knowing that people who lived within the boundaries of the City of St. George would have their sales and/or property taxes increase to cover these budget shortfalls and money that would have to be raised via tax revenue to pay the EBR Sheriff for additional public safety services.
Pages 8-10 explain the judge's ruling more than anything else. The judge is pretty much saying that if you want the city, you're going to have to find a way to pay for it.
It looks like there was an attempted bait and switch by incorporators trying to get people to vote for incorporation, promising no tax increases, but knowing that people who lived within the boundaries of the City of St. George would have their sales and/or property taxes increase to cover these budget shortfalls and money that would have to be raised via tax revenue to pay the EBR Sheriff for additional public safety services.
Pages 8-10 explain the judge's ruling more than anything else. The judge is pretty much saying that if you want the city, you're going to have to find a way to pay for it.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 10:50 am
Posted on 6/1/22 at 10:52 am to CrimeStoppers
Considering that BR has been unwilling to even meet with St George about a potential transition, how can one claim St George dropped the ball in totals?
No negotiation on legacy costs have taken place nor has the city given St George any concrete numbers on which to base a budget.
No negotiation on legacy costs have taken place nor has the city given St George any concrete numbers on which to base a budget.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 10:52 am
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:14 am to BigJim
Also, it also appears that with the incorporation of a city this large (greater than 50,000), a St. George City PD would have to be formed, along with a city council and school board.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 11:15 am
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:20 am to CrimeStoppers
quote:
I read the judge's ruling. It seems as if though the biggest issue that is preventing the incorporation from happening is the $3 million deficit that the City of St. George would be running on day one due to the estimated cost of pension and other post-employment benefits that are paid to City-Parish Employees. Also, it appears that the incorporators did not meet with the EBR Sheriff to determine what monetary contribution the City of St. George would make to have the EBR Sheriff provide additional public safety services.
As a whole, it looks like that is the only real hold up with Judge Coady not ruling in favor of St. George, but legally it seems that the city was formed within the law, and is not racist.
It looks like there was an attempted bait and switch by incorporators trying to get people to vote for incorporation, promising no tax increases, but knowing that people who lived within the boundaries of the City of St. George would have their sales and/or property taxes increase to cover these budget shortfalls and money that would have to be raised via tax revenue to pay the EBR Sheriff for additional public safety services.
Pages 8-10 explain the judge's ruling more than anything else. The judge is pretty much saying that if you want the city, you're going to have to find a way to pay for it.
I would say it is difficult to estimate the UAL contribution considering the city refused to meet with organizers of St. George, and I don't exactly understand why there should be legacy costs at all considering St. George will still be paying their 3% into the parish coffers, which should cover parish employees. EBR is clearly going to be harmed by St. George, due to their own financial mismanagement, and the organizers should also go to the state legislature with this ruling to start the process to get a school district, which still is the end goal. It seems it is a question of financial numbers, but one thing is blatantly obvious, Baton Rouge can't balance their books without St. George, and St. George may or may not be able to, but it will be close.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 11:22 am
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:22 am to CrimeStoppers
Does the statute for incorporation state that the newly formed city must have a balanced budget?
If not, its irrelevant.
If not, its irrelevant.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 11:26 am
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:32 am to CrimeStoppers
quote:
Also, it appears that the incorporators did not meet with the EBR Sheriff to determine what monetary contribution the City of St. George would make to have the EBR Sheriff provide additional public safety services.
I for one am happy with the level of service the sheriff provides now. Why would becoming a city change what the sheriff does? It didn’t change for Central. And yes I know SG had more people than Central, but we pay way more taxes to the Sheriff than they do.
I know the Sheriff had been asked about his stance on the incorporation so he is aware of the situation. If SG was incorporated, and we had to pay for the Sheriff to patrol would we get our taxes to the Shetiff cut? We know the answer to that question.
quote:
It looks like there was an attempted bait and switch by incorporators trying to get people to vote for incorporation, promising no tax increases, but knowing that people who lived within the boundaries of the City of St. George would have their sales and/or property taxes increase to cover these budget shortfalls and money that would have to be raised via tax revenue to pay the EBR Sheriff for additional public safety services.
It doesn’t look like that at all. It looks to me that the judge couldn’t let BR swim on their own. If SG becomes a city they would be the ones raising taxes. Not us. Do the math.
quote:
han anything else. The judge is pretty much saying that if you want the city, you're going to have to find a way to pay for it.
If it were only that simple, I remember when we were told to get a school system, we had to form a city. See how that had worked out. The same people that advised us to do that, are the same people that sued to stop SG.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:43 am to Breauxken
quote:
Does the statute for incorporation state that the newly formed city must have a balanced budget?
I'm not sure what the statute says, but Page 8 (last sentence) of the judgment says that St. George is required to have a balanced budget.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:49 am to TigerAlumni2010
quote:
I don't exactly understand why there should be legacy costs at all considering St. George will still be paying their 3% into the parish coffers, which should cover parish employees.
The judgment states that St. George would be paying 2% to parish coffers for the legacy costs, or $48 million. Legacy costs are $51 million, which would leave St. George with a $3 million shortfall. You don't make up that $3 million without some tax increase.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:56 am to TigerAlumni2010
quote:
It seems it is a question of financial numbers, but one thing is blatantly obvious, Baton Rouge can't balance their books without St. George, and St. George may or may not be able to, but it will be close.
Neither Baton Rouge or St. George would be able to balance their books without tax increases. Those increases would be much larger with Baton Rouge than St. George, but that's what happens when you function under the umbrella of a city-parish government.
If the incorporators would have negotiated with the city and proposed some revenue sharing agreement, whereby the city budget wouldn't have been cut by 45% with incorporation (but with a more modest cut of, maybe 20%), the incorporators may not be dealing with litigation.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:05 pm to CrimeStoppers
quote:
the judgment says that St. George is required to have a balanced budget.
Which is why SG will win on appeals easily. That isn't in the statutes, though I disagree with the premise anyway.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:09 pm to CrimeStoppers
quote:
Also, it appears that the incorporators did not meet with the EBR Sheriff to determine what monetary contribution the City of St. George would make to have the EBR Sheriff provide additional public safety services.
Malarkey.
"According to our Finance and Budget division property taxes collected from the St. George area which fund the EBRSO office more than cover the cost to run the Kleinpeter substation. For fiscal year 2019 (July 1, 2018- June 30, 2019) it costs EBRSO approximately $2.99 million to operate Kleinpeter substation which services almost all of the proposed city of St. George as well as some areas inside the city of Baton Rouge."
Sheriff Gautreaux, 2019.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:13 pm to CrimeStoppers
quote:
Also, it also appears that with the incorporation of a city this large (greater than 50,000), a St. George City PD would have to be formed, along with a city council and school board.
The city only needs a police chief, to act as liason to EBRPSO. The school board comment is insanity. Incorporation legal processes don't have anything to do with a future ISD. It's like the judge slept through the trial. The basic facts in his judgment are simply ignorant. I hate that an appeal will need to be financed, but I think they win easily.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:38 pm to CrimeStoppers
quote:
Neither Baton Rouge or St. George would be able to balance their books without tax increases. Those increases would be much larger with Baton Rouge than St. George, but that's what happens when you function under the umbrella of a city-parish government.
I guess Baton Rouge shouldn't be a city according to the judge if they can't properly balance their budget.
quote:
If the incorporators would have negotiated with the city and proposed some revenue sharing agreement, whereby the city budget wouldn't have been cut by 45% with incorporation (but with a more modest cut of, maybe 20%), the incorporators may not be dealing with litigation.
I think St. George would have negotiated in good faith the city, however we don't know for sure considering the city refused to send any representative to the meetings. I wonder if that has anything to do with them knowing that they would be losing their tax colony and needed to fight it using every trick they have in the book. Regarding the UAL, I am wondering why that is taken from the 2% set aside for SG rather than the 3% already due for city/parish services, I would think that should be included in the portion that goes to the CP. That is neither here nor there if it is due statutorily out of the monies due to SG.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:42 pm to TigerAlumni2010
The city-parish was NEVER going to negotiate.
They want 100%, not a split of that. Hence why they have dug in so hard.
For Christ’s sake, the St George petitioners offered an olive branch after the first attempt got shite-canned in which the parish and school board would make some concessions in exchange for dropping any future incorporation efforts.
They were told to frick off and that only incorporated cities get funds that don’t go through the general fund first.
They want 100%, not a split of that. Hence why they have dug in so hard.
For Christ’s sake, the St George petitioners offered an olive branch after the first attempt got shite-canned in which the parish and school board would make some concessions in exchange for dropping any future incorporation efforts.
They were told to frick off and that only incorporated cities get funds that don’t go through the general fund first.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:08 pm to BigJim
Central did not win their first round either. This shite ain't over, not by a long shot. Appeals will be filed. 
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:21 pm to BigJim
quote:So, to decompile the decision ... the Judge says:
But he ruled that St. George likely would not collect enough money to pay for needed services and account for its share of city-parish retirement costs. The budget presented at trial did not include the cost of paying the sheriff’s office for law enforcement, the ruling states.
Coady says evidence indicates St. George would start with a $3 million deficit on day one, even excluding the cost to the sheriff.
“This deficit will be a huge negative on the City of St. George,” Coady writes. “St. George is required to run a balanced budget and because of this deficit there would be layoffs and a reduction in public services.”
Coady adds that a $48 million annual loss to the city-parish budget would have a detrimental impact on Baton Rouge. Impact on surrounding communities is one of the factors that can be considered when deciding if an incorporation is reasonable under the law.
(1) St. George couldn't afford to pay for services in the Judge's estimation. Yet,
(2) St. George's split from Baton Rouge would cost BR $48M/yr in the Judge's estimation.
(3) The only way St. George incorporation would COST Baton Rouge revenue is if said REVENUE from St. George far OUTSTRIPS cost of services in St. George. But those are the same services which the Judge claims St. George could not afford?
Am I missing something?
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