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Message
1
Posted on 4/10/24 at 1:44 pm to SirWinston
quote:
It's almost as if you chickenhawks are starting to realize that propping up Ukraine isn't in the United States' best interests.
Yes, letting Russia aggressively expand is definitely preferable to helping a country that actively attempted to join the EU.
You're such a ponce. Posted on 4/10/24 at 1:48 pm to RuLSU
quote:
Yes, letting Russia aggressively expand
Yes its an amazing march through Eastern Europe for Putin
Oh wait, that's the wrong map
Posted on 4/10/24 at 1:49 pm to SirWinston
quote:
It's almost as if you chickenhawks are starting to realize that propping up Ukraine isn't in the United States' best interests.
But letting Russia roll over Ukraine is good?
Letting Russia control a larger share of oil and gas is good?
Letting Russia pose a greater threat to the region, Europe, and NATO is good?
How is that?
Posted on 4/10/24 at 2:22 pm to bigjoe1
quote:
Justamazing. Isn't that part of military stragety to force the enemy to ration fuel?My dad was in assigned to a B-24 in Italy during WW11. He said they flew a lot of missions against syntheic fuel plants in southern German and Austria.
Guess they got it all wrong.
Putin and Xi's mission is to prove to the world that Democracy is a weakness because it prevents "Great Leaders" from doing whatever it takes to make their Nations the dominant countries at the top.
Putin's strategy is, of course, to outlast Western resolve... and once that's accomplished in Ukraine...
All hell will break loose globally... China can invade Taiwan, Serbia can invade Kosovo, North Korea can ramp up hostilities with South Korea, Iran can stir up Shiites in all of the Arab states to rise up, Venezuela can invade Guyana... and Russia can press on to the Danube in the West and regain the -Stans in Central Asia and reclaim its Empire
And the US and NATO and the West will be unable to cover and stop all of it at once... and the world can be remade by strongmen and the dominance of the US and Europe in global affairs can be toppled...
... and we regress to a world of violence and aggression... and misery. Which some people here seem to want.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 2:24 pm to ColtRange
quote:
The guy weathered the most extensive sanctions in the history of the world
Which is why his country does not have the capacity to quickly repair the damage to the oil refineries. Russia has lost 15% of its refinery capability and it cannot really afford to go without that for too long before it has to start rationing supplies for Russian civilians.
quote:
a coup attempt like it was nothing
Are you talking about the Wagner uprising? The Wagner uprising was against Putin's boy Shoigu not Putin himself.
quote:
this flood might do him in though.
Russians support Putin because they believe he keeps them safe. Everything eventually has a breaking point. The Russian government's response to this flood has been more pathetic than FEMA's response after Katrina. There are videos of Russians crying for Putin to come and help them but Russia does not have the assets in the Ural region to help. Everything is in Ukraine, Belarus, and western Russia. Leaving approximately 700,000 people to fend for themselves due to a natural disaster as a result of infrastructure failure is going to have an effect on Putin's support. Especially since if (big if) the rumors of an unscheduled mobilization in later April or May are true. As Lima Whiskey pointed out many months ago, the Russian people will put up with a lot before they snap and revolt but when they revolt they revolt hard.
quote:
Another counteroffensive in the works? Russia fricked
I hope this is just propaganda from Zelensky because if it is not then he hasn't learned the most important lesson in war. Keep your mouth shut. Loose lips sink ships.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 2:40 pm to WeeWee
quote:
I hope this is just propaganda from Zelensky because if it is not then he hasn't learned the most important lesson in war. Keep your mouth shut. Loose lips sink ships.
Perhaps he has learned the Russian art of "the feint!"
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 4/10/24 at 3:22 pm to Lee B
This is exactly what Chaim tweeted a couple of hours ago, and he's never been incorrect about foreign policy.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 3:25 pm to doubleb
quote:
Letting Russia control a larger share of oil and gas is good?
Letting Russia pose a greater threat to the region, Europe, and NATO is good?
How is that?
Yes. It's great for all of us to have a contested balance of power instead of a one world government that controls everything. Only a fricking retard who wants to eat crickets and have his travel mileage capped would fail to grasp this.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 3:47 pm to Lee B
quote:
All hell will break loose globally... China can invade Taiwan, Serbia can invade Kosovo, North Korea can ramp up hostilities with South Korea, Iran can stir up Shiites in all of the Arab states to rise up, Venezuela can invade Guyana... and Russia can press on to the Danube in the West and regain the -Stans in Central Asia and reclaim its Empire
And the US and NATO and the West will be unable to cover and stop all of it at once... and the world can be remade by strongmen and the dominance of the US and Europe in global affairs can be toppled...
The fact that you think it is the responsibility of NATO and the United States to intervene in all global interstate conflicts and to maintain the geopolitical status quo of every state by threat of force basically sums up the futility of this discussion. The idea that this philosophy of massive global intervention is somehow wise or healthy policy for the United States or sustainable without great consequence is delusional at best. China has accrued its great power without any major wars of conquest. The United States has greatly weakened itself through bogging down in expensive, never ending conflicts that do not demonstrate any clear national interest other than lofty rhetoric and unsubstantiated (and later disproved) claims of how much better off and more peaceful the world will be after our military intervention.
The West is destroying itself through internal social conflict. There is NO evidence that Russia has any plans to conquer or threaten any other European states outside of simplistic propaganda. China either for that matter though I'd be much more concerned with them geopolitically moving forward. There is no reason to view this conflict as anything other than a local regional/ethnic conflict in which our meddling has likely significantly contributed to its escalation and perhaps deliberately so. It provides our intelligence agencies a battlefield to push their intervention theories that most always backfire because there are always unintended consequences and outcomes from military conflicts.
I've never in my lifetime seen this country and its institutions (including media) so gung ho for supporting an extremely bloody foreign war with near existential zeal. Instead of encouraging a diplomatic solution that perhaps reflects the reality of the situation on the ground, the mob demands a third party state and its population fight to the last man and concede zero territory even if it brings an end to the senseless catastrophe. Then comes the childish, yet predictable, narrative of "appeasement" and dire predictions of a future invasion of Europe by the new Hitler and his war machine.
Some people are going to need to wake up to the fact that the world isn't just going to be like it was in the 90's and early 2000's anymore. There was a short lived unipolar world with the U.S. at the top. There will be a multipolar world again where the United States will have to work with states who do not merely bend to our political pressure, no matter how much we fight to undermine them on the international stage for defying our will. We managed to navigate 1945 to 1991 without a direct confrontation with the USSR and that was with Ukraine being a major Soviet state and half of Germany and all of Eastern Europe under Communist occupation, and yet we act as though the potential concession of some Eastern Ukrainian territories following an extremely bloody war and an agreement not to add Ukraine to the NATO alliance is an impossible bargain...
Posted on 4/10/24 at 3:49 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Yes. It's great for all of us to have a contested balance of power instead of a one world government that controls everything. Only a fricking retard who wants to eat crickets and have his travel mileage capped would fail to grasp this.
Spoken just like Putin and Xi... but of course, they actually want to be the One World Government, themselves.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 3:56 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
yet we act as though the potential concession of some Eastern Ukrainian territories following an extremely bloody war and an agreement not to add Ukraine to the NATO alliance is an impossible bargain
Russia wouldn't accept just those terms though, and have actually rejected a peace deal where Ukraine agreed to not join NATO shortly after the war began. They have stated several times that any security guarantees to Ukraine can't exist, Russia gets to oversee future elections, and Ukraines military has to be capped at a smaller size than it is today.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 4:01 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
The fact that you think it is the responsibility of NATO and the United States to intervene in all global interstate conflicts and to maintain the geopolitical status quo of every state by threat of force basically sums up the futility of this discussion. The idea that this philosophy of massive global intervention is somehow wise or healthy policy for the United States or sustainable without great consequence is delusional at best. China has accrued its great power without any major wars of conquest. The United States has greatly weakened itself through bogging down in expensive, never ending conflicts that do not demonstrate any clear national interest other than lofty rhetoric and unsubstantiated (and later disproved) claims of how much better off and more peaceful the world will be after our military intervention.
The West is destroying itself through internal social conflict. There is NO evidence that Russia has any plans to conquer or threaten any other European states outside of simplistic propaganda. China either for that matter though I'd be much more concerned with them geopolitically moving forward. There is no reason to view this conflict as anything other than a local regional/ethnic conflict in which our meddling has likely significantly contributed to its escalation and perhaps deliberately so. It provides our intelligence agencies a battlefield to push their intervention theories that most always backfire because there are always unintended consequences and outcomes from military conflicts.
I've never in my lifetime seen this country and its institutions (including media) so gung ho for supporting an extremely bloody foreign war with near existential zeal. Instead of encouraging a diplomatic solution that perhaps reflects the reality of the situation on the ground, the mob demands a third party state and its population fight to the last man and concede zero territory even if it brings an end to the senseless catastrophe. Then comes the childish, yet predictable, narrative of "appeasement" and dire predictions of a future invasion of Europe by the new Hitler and his war machine.
Some people are going to need to wake up to the fact that the world isn't just going to be like it was in the 90's and early 2000's anymore. There was a short lived unipolar world with the U.S. at the top. There will be a multipolar world again where the United States will have to work with states who do not merely bend to our political pressure, no matter how much we fight to undermine them on the international stage for defying our will. We managed to navigate 1945 to 1991 without a direct confrontation with the USSR and that was with Ukraine being a major Soviet state and half of Germany and all of Eastern Europe under Communist occupation, and yet we act as though the potential concession of some Eastern Ukrainian territories following an extremely bloody war and an agreement not to add Ukraine to the NATO alliance is an impossible bargain...
The bloody wars were a mistake and a misuse of our power and position. We've wasted time meddling in countries' internal disputes and affairs (In Korea, we were helping the South defend itself from invasion, which we enabled by kind of abandoning them and allowing the North to launch its invasion. In Vietnam, we were basically fighting the population to keep someone they did not want in power, which cannot succeed. The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were complete mistakes... Afghanistan was a waste of time and is not right back where it started, and Iraq is now an appendage of Iran instead of an isolated pariah)
But international affairs is basically a Mafia scenario, and at the end of WWII we became the Godfather.
If we abandon that role, will the next Godfather be "better" for the world than we are? Who and Why? if you can answer that... and how will the next Godfather emerge and solidify that position? China doing it "peacefully?"
We tried the isolationist "whatever..." position and the result was Pearl Harbor and the hell that was WWII, and the devil's bargain that created the Soviet Empire in eastern Europe.
Also... you seem to miss the Russians constantly stating they will not stop with Ukraine. Pay more attention to their own statements as posted in this thread.
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 4/10/24 at 4:06 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Letting Russia control a larger share of oil and gas is good? Letting Russia pose a greater threat to the region, Europe, and NATO is good? How is that?
MYes. It's great for all of us to have a contested balance of power instead of a one world government that controls everything. Only a fricking retard who wants to eat crickets and have his travel mileage capped would fail to grasp this.
So like I thought, you have no good answer just more and more BS.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 4:08 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
I've never in my lifetime seen this country and its institutions (including media) so gung ho for supporting an extremely bloody foreign war with near existential zeal
Hogwash, but then again maybe you aren’t old enough to remember Vietnam.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 4:09 pm to SirWinston
quote:
To have a goal of 25 Patriot systems in the next 5-10 years is a reasonable goal.
You don't want Christians here in the USA to have jobs selling weapons that will be used to protect Christians in Ukraine? Wow. You are anti-American and anti-Christian.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 4:38 pm to WeeWee
Media: Satellite imagery shows damage at aircraft factory in Russia's Voronezh Oblast after reported drone strike
by Nate Ostiller and The Kyiv Independent news desk April 10, 2024 9:37 PM
Satellite imagery published on April 10 by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty's (RFE/RL) Schemes project showed damage to buildings at an aircraft factory in Russia's Voronezh Oblast, following reports from Ukraine's military intelligence that drones had struck the facility the previous day.
A representative from the military intelligence told the Kyiv Independent on the condition of anonymity on April 9 that Ukrainian drones attacked a Russian aviation training center in the city of Borisoglebsk, located some 330 kilometers (205 miles) from the Ukrainian border.
The photo, provided to Schemes by the satellite imagery analytics company Planet Labs, shows a building with a collapsed roof.
The Kyiv Independent
by Nate Ostiller and The Kyiv Independent news desk April 10, 2024 9:37 PM
Satellite imagery published on April 10 by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty's (RFE/RL) Schemes project showed damage to buildings at an aircraft factory in Russia's Voronezh Oblast, following reports from Ukraine's military intelligence that drones had struck the facility the previous day.
A representative from the military intelligence told the Kyiv Independent on the condition of anonymity on April 9 that Ukrainian drones attacked a Russian aviation training center in the city of Borisoglebsk, located some 330 kilometers (205 miles) from the Ukrainian border.
The photo, provided to Schemes by the satellite imagery analytics company Planet Labs, shows a building with a collapsed roof.
The Kyiv Independent
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 4/10/24 at 4:43 pm to doubleb
quote:
quote:
I've never in my lifetime seen this country and its institutions (including media) so gung ho for supporting an extremely bloody foreign war with near existential zeal
Hogwash, but then again maybe you aren’t old enough to remember Vietnam.
Or Iraq?
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:00 pm to WeeWee
quote:
You don't want Christians here in the USA to have jobs selling weapons that will be used to protect Christians in Ukraine? Wow. You are anti-American and anti-Christian.
I'll be honest - if it were Jeb Bush or Nimrata Haley running against Joe Biden I'd realize that it's hopeless and cede you this point. Let the MIC eat, there's zero chance of stopping it.
But it's not. It's Donnell Trump my gangsta who has a track record of trying to fulfill populist / Nationalist policies that actually put America First. And I anticipate your next argument, which will be that Donnell failed to get traction on most of his promises his first term in many respects.
This is true. But it seems likely that he learned from those mistakes (as evidenced by the coup to replace RNC leadership) and will have a more robustly MAGA organization supporting his agenda this time.
Milei is doing work in Argentina and it seems like Trump has a better idea of how to tackle the swamp now (and to set up a succession plan for the next Populist / Nationalist leader for 2028).
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:05 pm to Lee B
It's so crazy seeing many of the same leftists who (correctly, as it turns out) cried "No blood for oil" for 5 years under Bush now stay silent over such an obviously similar setup in Ukraine.
We already knew they were hypocrites though bc they stopped saying it for the 8 years that Obama kept the grift going.
We already knew they were hypocrites though bc they stopped saying it for the 8 years that Obama kept the grift going.
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 5:06 pm
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