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2
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:06 pm to cypher
That’s not damage, it’s a sun roof.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:07 pm to cypher
quote:
Just now in a HASC hearing, Assistant Secretary of Defense Wallander says that Russian oil & gas infrastructure is a civilian target.
Confirmed.
Video of her testimony
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:08 pm to doubleb
Didn't the first Iraq under JFK's and RFK's murderer seed the initial funding and recruiting of terrorists that led (tangentially) to 9/11 and all the other shite? Then that led to Iraq / Afghanistan and Obamas shite that led to the Muslim invasion of Western Europe?
For my money, Pappy Bush is likely the most evil figure in American history (Obama could be giving him a run, but we dont have enough insight yet into how much clout BO truly has).
For my money, Pappy Bush is likely the most evil figure in American history (Obama could be giving him a run, but we dont have enough insight yet into how much clout BO truly has).
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:10 pm to cypher
quote:
Confirmed.
Video of her testimony
Proof that Biden is putting his reelection prospects above the lives of the Ukrainian citizens.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:13 pm to Lee B
quote:
We tried the isolationist "whatever..." position and the result was Pearl Harbor and the hell that was WWII, and the devil's bargain that created the Soviet Empire in eastern Europe.
That wouldn't necessarily repeat itself, especially in military form.
We'd be much better off investing in infrastructure rebuild and modernisation of our energy grid.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:22 pm to Lee B
I know a guy with a PhD in Political Science, and his specialty is Russia and Eastern Europe from 1900-now...
In the months before the Invasion we bet $5...
I bet that Putin WOULD NOT invade Ukraine, because I didn't think he'd be that stupid.
He bet that he would. He wouldn't say why.
I lost.
Upon winning, he just said that I, like most Americans, had no idea how awful Putin and his inner circle really are... or all the things they've been doing since he came to power to regain control of their Empire, because alone Russia is not that strong or powerful... just a third world PetroState with a lot of nuclear weapons, and that drives him crazy, because he wants to be a major player in everything... he wants to be the equal (or superior) of the US... he wants to determine the path of the world... he gets offended and pissed when world affairs are settled without his direction. The two people he hates most are Angela Merkel and Hillary Clinton because how dare women be considered on his level or above... how dare he have to act as if they matter or should be in any positions of power at all. But Ukraine - to him - is like Georgia or Chechnya... how dare it not do what he tells it to... and then the Maidan Revolution (or Second Orange Revolution) especially pissed him off because Russians were looking at it and then chatting on social media about "why can't we do that!?!" "Why can't we protest and bring change!?!" and Russians had already noticed that Ukrainians, which are pretty much their cousins, had a modest but still substantially higher standard of living across the board... things like washing machines and dishwashers... or running water and indoor toilets even in the rural areas, which was hard to explain away... Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are "so small that they have less to take care of" and it can be excused away that they became very nice countries to live in once away from Russian control, but Ukraine is too similar, and EU membership and a better economy would have been like living next door to a mansion with luxury cars in the drive way... it exposes the corruption in the Russian system, and that would've been trouble for him.
Suppose you don't know or haven't seen. In that case, internal Russian TV depicts America as a giant ghetto full of toothless, homeless Meth addicts and alcoholics outside of wealthy gated enclaves... everything on American TV is lies, and people here are not any better off than people in Russia. It has always been depicted this way, there, except for the Yeltsin years when he tried to convince Russians to become like Americans... Yeltsin himself stated that he knew America was really a dump and we just faked things for TV and visitors, so we told him to pick a direction and drove until he said to stop and took him into a random supermarket, where he shite his pants and returned to Russia as a champion of capitalism and westernization and open trade. We know the educated and middle and upper classes of Russia mostly know better (and mostly fled at the start of this if they could, or hadn't already) but I do wonder about the people past the Western edge of Russia. Hell, I saw tons of Americans at the start of this saying "At least Russia can feed its own people and supply them with gas so they're better off than we are!" and couldn't believe it.
I learned the error of my naive appraisal of the situation. I was one of the people who rolled my eyes when Mitt Romney said "Russia is the greatest security threat to America and the West"... and I was wrong, Obama was wrong, and Romney and Hillary Clinton were actually correct.
In the months before the Invasion we bet $5...
I bet that Putin WOULD NOT invade Ukraine, because I didn't think he'd be that stupid.
He bet that he would. He wouldn't say why.
I lost.
Upon winning, he just said that I, like most Americans, had no idea how awful Putin and his inner circle really are... or all the things they've been doing since he came to power to regain control of their Empire, because alone Russia is not that strong or powerful... just a third world PetroState with a lot of nuclear weapons, and that drives him crazy, because he wants to be a major player in everything... he wants to be the equal (or superior) of the US... he wants to determine the path of the world... he gets offended and pissed when world affairs are settled without his direction. The two people he hates most are Angela Merkel and Hillary Clinton because how dare women be considered on his level or above... how dare he have to act as if they matter or should be in any positions of power at all. But Ukraine - to him - is like Georgia or Chechnya... how dare it not do what he tells it to... and then the Maidan Revolution (or Second Orange Revolution) especially pissed him off because Russians were looking at it and then chatting on social media about "why can't we do that!?!" "Why can't we protest and bring change!?!" and Russians had already noticed that Ukrainians, which are pretty much their cousins, had a modest but still substantially higher standard of living across the board... things like washing machines and dishwashers... or running water and indoor toilets even in the rural areas, which was hard to explain away... Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are "so small that they have less to take care of" and it can be excused away that they became very nice countries to live in once away from Russian control, but Ukraine is too similar, and EU membership and a better economy would have been like living next door to a mansion with luxury cars in the drive way... it exposes the corruption in the Russian system, and that would've been trouble for him.
Suppose you don't know or haven't seen. In that case, internal Russian TV depicts America as a giant ghetto full of toothless, homeless Meth addicts and alcoholics outside of wealthy gated enclaves... everything on American TV is lies, and people here are not any better off than people in Russia. It has always been depicted this way, there, except for the Yeltsin years when he tried to convince Russians to become like Americans... Yeltsin himself stated that he knew America was really a dump and we just faked things for TV and visitors, so we told him to pick a direction and drove until he said to stop and took him into a random supermarket, where he shite his pants and returned to Russia as a champion of capitalism and westernization and open trade. We know the educated and middle and upper classes of Russia mostly know better (and mostly fled at the start of this if they could, or hadn't already) but I do wonder about the people past the Western edge of Russia. Hell, I saw tons of Americans at the start of this saying "At least Russia can feed its own people and supply them with gas so they're better off than we are!" and couldn't believe it.
I learned the error of my naive appraisal of the situation. I was one of the people who rolled my eyes when Mitt Romney said "Russia is the greatest security threat to America and the West"... and I was wrong, Obama was wrong, and Romney and Hillary Clinton were actually correct.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:26 pm to Lee B
quote:
Lee B
Lot of anecdotes there Lee B.
You should probably go volunteer in Ukraine, existential threat and all.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:37 pm to Philzilla2k
quote:
Philzilla2k
Such a low IQ response
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:38 pm to WeeWee
quote:
You don't want Christians here in the USA to have jobs selling weapons that will be used to protect Christians in Ukraine? Wow. You are anti-American and anti-Christian.
The below-linked article is by a leftist who considers it horrible, but it seems that part of the process of getting Speaker Johnson and much of the GOP on board with new aid is happening through a new push to emphasize that Ukraine offers religious freedom to evangelical Christians, while those same evangelical Christians face persecution in Russia and in occupied Ukraine.
LINK
It's interesting because, in the immediate aftermath of the invasion in 2022, Ukraine made moves towards the left on LGBT issues, because they wanted to get the EU fully on board and a leftward move on LGBT issues appeared to grease the wheels towards EU membership.
But Ukraine is actually very conservative on LGBT issues. For example, gay marriage is still illegal in Ukraine, and that can't be changed while the country is under martial law.
Now, it would appear that it is now very much in Ukraine's best interest to move towards the right on LGBT issues, and that making assurances to Johnson and House Republicans is part of securing more US aid.
As I have said before, I knew Mike Johnson very well when he and I were both members of Parkview Baptist Church in Baton Rouge in the early 2000s. The last in-depth conversation that I had with Mike in 2017 was about some detailed issues inside the Southern Baptist Convention. Mike cares very, very much about his fellow Baptists who face persecution around the world.
Again, some history for you:
In the wake of the collapse of the USSR, Baptists in the US hoped that millions of people in the formerly atheist country could hear the Gospel (as understood by evangelical Christians, who teach salvation through faith alone).
In Russia, this ultimately did not happen, as Russia decided to try to renew part of its national identity through the Russian Orthodox Church, and a number of laws discriminate against evangelical Christians.
Ukraine, though, still had a small Baptist community: descendants of German Anabaptists who had immigrated there in the late 1800s. And Ukraine had no problem with American Baptists establishing a Baptist theological seminary in Odessa.
And Baptist churches flourished in Ukraine. Many Ukrainians saw the Russian Orthodox Church as the church of the oppressor, and by the time of the 2022 invasion, there were almost 3,000 Baptist churches in Ukraine, and there were more Baptists in Ukraine than in any other European country except the UK. Unfortunately, of course, some Baptists in the Donbas had fallen under persecution after Russia took that area in 2014. (For example, all 42 Baptist churches in Luhansk Oblast were forced to close.)
The International Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention had missionaries working openly in Ukraine to support Baptist churches, but since the start of the war, all those people have been pulled out of Ukraine for safety. I've personally spoken with one of them, Mike Domko, who is now in Budapest and working to help meet the needs of Baptists who've left Ukraine to take refuge in Poland, Hungary, and Romania.
And many of the almost 3,000 Baptist churches in Ukraine are struggling right now, with many members deployed in the military, many members who have fled to neighboring countries, and, of course, churches in areas that have fallen under Russian occupation.
As I have said before, I know for a fact that Mike feels personal grief at this. The spread of the Gospel matters to him more than just about anything else. It's part of why I have been extremely confident that more aid to Ukraine WILL get passed, even if it costs Mike the Speaker position -- he will consider it worth the sacrifice.
Edit: Twitter thread by the above Leftist upset about all this: LINK
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 6:56 pm
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:41 pm to doubleb
quote:
There were two Iraqs really. One was a no brainer, the second less so.
The first one was the equivalent of the cops showing up at an illegal party and the partygoers running away. In my memory it was like a weekend of news reports... but I didn't have cable TV at the time.
But yeah, I meant the second one, which was treated as a big existential threat and even the "liberal media" were acting like cheerleaders... and honestly, the actual government and military in Iraq collapsed pretty quickly, but then we had to deal with the tribalism that had been oppressed since the time of the Ottoman Empire 1000 years ago instantly erupting again... in a vacuum there is instantly a fight for domination and control between groups.
And that is why I, while not being a Hawk in general or a Neo- anything (though not a Pacifist), think America abandoning it's chair at the head of the table of global affairs is a huge mistake: in a vacuum there is instantly a fight for domination and control.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:43 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Confirmed.
Video of her testimony
Proof that Biden is putting his reelection prospects above the lives of the Ukrainian citizens.
I have been saying that since 2/24/22. WTF is new?
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:47 pm to WeeWee
quote:LINK
"I spoke with Dmytro Kuleba and he is desperately asking for seven Patriot batteries to protect his country. It should be inconceivable that we were not able to provide them, given that the Western armies have about 100 batteries of Patriot", - Josep Borrell
To settle that argument that some people were having earlier Ukraine needs 7 Patriot batteries to close its airspace to Russian attacks. It would like to have 25 Patriot missile batteries at some point in the future to fully secure its skies including protection from ballistic missiles. There are 100 Patriot batteries in NATO's arsenal right now. Surely we can find a way to spare 7 of them and then replace them by the end of the year.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:48 pm to Philzilla2k
quote:
Lot of anecdotes there Lee B.
You should probably go volunteer in Ukraine, existential threat and all.
I'm too old, now.
One of my best friends, who was a Marine in the early 00s, did go join members of his old unit and join the Ukrainian Army and just got back from a year mostly spent in Bakhmut. He got wounded a second time, and since he was an American he was offered a discharge.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:50 pm to WeeWee
If there is one thing I've learned from this thread, it that this about "bleeding Russia dry". Imo this was never about Ukraine. They were just a convenient whipping boy. Sucks ,but that's the reality that the US gov is showing
Posted on 4/10/24 at 5:52 pm to ticklechain
quote:
If there is one thing I've learned from this thread, it that this about "bleeding Russia dry". Imo this was never about Ukraine. They were just a convenient whipping boy. Sucks ,but that's the reality that the US gov is showing
I realized the Biden administration did not have a plan for Ukraine to win when Zelensky told Bide "I need ammo not a ride."
Posted on 4/10/24 at 6:24 pm to GOP_Tiger
The Russian Orthodox Church is no different from the government-owned Mosques in Iran: The real God being worshipped is the regime and the gospel is whatever is best for the regime's interests. It's a method of control and that's why other churches are considered a threat.
Posted on 4/10/24 at 6:29 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Bill Kristol
Posted on 4/10/24 at 6:32 pm to ticklechain
quote:
If there is one thing I've learned from this thread, it that this about "bleeding Russia dry". Imo this was never about Ukraine. They were just a convenient whipping boy. Sucks ,but that's the reality that the US gov is showing
I think it stinks, but what would you do differently?
Send in US troops at the beginning of the invasion?
Not do anything?
Posted on 4/10/24 at 6:42 pm to Lee B
Can't deny a free chance to degrade the Russian military. They would do the same.There has to be a line IMO, or it could go sideways
This post was edited on 4/10/24 at 6:45 pm
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