- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 5/30/23 at 8:52 am to DabosDynasty
Posted on 5/30/23 at 8:52 am to DabosDynasty
Very good points.
Cheap drones are the way of the future.
Cheap drones are the way of the future.
1
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:01 am to Chromdome35
Questions is, what is the air defense of the future?
I know we’ve worked on some laser weapons but haven’t seen that applied to AD nor do I have the first clue if that can be achieved.
IF it’s lasers, it’s crazy to think we’re kinda sorta backing into Star Wars type stuff.
I know we’ve worked on some laser weapons but haven’t seen that applied to AD nor do I have the first clue if that can be achieved.
IF it’s lasers, it’s crazy to think we’re kinda sorta backing into Star Wars type stuff.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:06 am to DabosDynasty
Good time to secretly test them (lasers).
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:10 am to DabosDynasty
I think u will see more radar guided small cal AA. Which a lot of militaries have phased out. Think Gepards.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:17 am to DabosDynasty
quote:
know we’ve worked on some laser weapons but haven’t seen that applied to AD nor do I have the first clue if that can be achieved.
IF it’s lasers, it’s crazy to think we’re kinda sorta backing into Star Wars type stuff.
DefenseNews
Oh, it's definitely coming. According to this article, they're outfitting a platoon of the new directed energy lasers on Stryker vehicles. A version of the kinetic weapon has already been deployed to Europe for exercises. (I don't think that is the laser weapon, but it's the Stryker platform the laser weapons will be put on. They're just using Stingers for now with the kinetic version)
quote:
Downed drones littered the battlefield at Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona during a live-fire test of the Stryker-based Short-Range Air Defense system prototypes with 50-kilowatt lasers, according to the director of Army’s Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Office.
quote:
The Army fielded its M-SHORAD system with a kinetic capability to Europe in response to an urgent operational need. “We’ve got kinetic M-SHORAD, we’ve got directed energy M-SHORAD, we’re just now getting short-range air defense back into our maneuver units. So they’re still figuring out the TTPs on how to fight that.”
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:17 am to DabosDynasty
I think lasers make the most sense from a cost standpoint.
https://newatlas.com/military/us-navy-shoots-down-drone-using-all-electric-laser/
https://newatlas.com/military/us-navy-shoots-down-drone-using-all-electric-laser/
quote:
The US Navy has shot down its first drone representing a subsonic cruise missile using an all-electric high-energy laser. At the US Army’s High Energy Laser Systems Test Facility at the White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico, the Lockheed Martin Layered Laser Defense (LLD) weapon disabled the engine on a drone, which then parachuted to earth.
Sponsored by the US Office of Naval Research (ONR) and conducted in partnership with the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense (Research and Engineering) and Lockheed Martin, the February 2022 test was intended not only to demonstrate the ability of laser weapons to track and take out large targets like the drone in question, but also a variety of threats, such as robotic fixed-wing aerial vehicles, quadcopters, and subsonic cruise missiles.
According to the Navy, laser weapons have a number of advantages. Using a high-resolution telescope, the system can track and help identify incoming targets and determine how much damage the laser inflicts on a target. In addition, laser weapons can be scaled back to disable sensors or dazzle hostile forces without permanently blinding them.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:22 am to DabosDynasty
quote:
Questions is, what is the air defense of the future?
Electronic warfare/signal jammers
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:36 am to beerJeep
The issue I have with a signal denial system is that you are just forcing the weapon to crash and detonate vs having it detonate in the air.
What does more damage and more importantly more collateral damage. If you are destroying the drones as they come in then you are in effect having the concussive force detonate above the battlefield vs knocking them down or having them go “dumb” and exploding wherever they hit.
Drones are the future and so the next wave of air defense will now have to be more of a combined approach. I am curious if we are looking at more of a drone swarm/screen approach that are automated to pursue any drone entering an area vs some form of laser or ordnance based weapon.
What does more damage and more importantly more collateral damage. If you are destroying the drones as they come in then you are in effect having the concussive force detonate above the battlefield vs knocking them down or having them go “dumb” and exploding wherever they hit.
Drones are the future and so the next wave of air defense will now have to be more of a combined approach. I am curious if we are looking at more of a drone swarm/screen approach that are automated to pursue any drone entering an area vs some form of laser or ordnance based weapon.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:38 am to DabosDynasty
A few people replied below.
A few other points i would add.
There is a cheaper anti-drone air defense system we sent ukraine somewhat recently. C-UAS laser guided rocket systems.
Cheaper than a full on patriot (or similar) but effective against the shaheds.
C-UAS sent to Ukraine
Also, the prevalence of drones means that older AA systems with 20-30mm guns will continue being viable. The swiss have one I forget the name of. Germany provided a few to Ukraine and i think was trying to help secure more ammo for them. They are a viable option for shaheds.
A few other points i would add.
There is a cheaper anti-drone air defense system we sent ukraine somewhat recently. C-UAS laser guided rocket systems.
Cheaper than a full on patriot (or similar) but effective against the shaheds.
C-UAS sent to Ukraine
Also, the prevalence of drones means that older AA systems with 20-30mm guns will continue being viable. The swiss have one I forget the name of. Germany provided a few to Ukraine and i think was trying to help secure more ammo for them. They are a viable option for shaheds.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:48 am to LSUnation78
quote:
Also, the prevalence of drones means that older AA systems with 20-30mm guns will continue being viable
Absolutely. Along with technology advances in ammunition.
The Germans have the Gepard, but they also have the MANTIS system that is incredibly badass. Along with some sort of "programmable ammo" that uses electromagnets near the muzzle to set the fuse on the airburst shells. It's basically high tech "flak" that US pilots feared in WW2.
Here's a short video from Rheinmetall on the concept:
youtube
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:51 am to laxtonto
quote:
The issue I have with a signal denial system is that you are just forcing the weapon to crash and detonate vs having it detonate in the air.
Not necessarily. They are using anti-drone signal jamming shoulder fired platforms that simply force the drones to land.
I also feel you’ll see some sort of high strength super thin/hard to see wire mesh being used around certain hard targets as a last ditch save
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:06 am to IAmNERD
Gepard was the name that escaped me… not sure why I thought it was swiss. Maybe the swiss make ammo for it or something…
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:11 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Smelly scumbags! What are you doing? Get your asses up from the cabinets you've been put into to protect this country! You've done frick all in order to advance! Why the frick are you allowing the arrival of these UAVs to Moscow? The fact that they fly to your home in Rubylovka, the frick with that, let your houses burn. What are regular people meant to do when UAVs with explosives crash into their houses?
As a citizen, I'm deeply outraged that these scumbags calmly sit on their fat asses smeared with expensive creams. Hence, I believe that people have the full right to ask them these questions, to these morons. However, I warned about it many times, but no one wants to listen. Because I'm mad, and I frustrate the bureaucrats who have wonderful lives.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:13 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
When ordinary people in Moscow no longer feel safe, they can't pretend that they are in a special military operation any more. They know that they are in a war.
“But mark my words. This war will be fought not on the frontier or on some distant battlefield, but amongst us -- among our homes. Our children will learn of it with their own eyes. And the innocent will die with the rest of us” - racist arse Melly Gibson
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:59 am to tigeraddict
quote:
I think u will see more radar guided small cal AA. Which a lot of militaries have phased out. Think Gepards.
IMO... (and I would be surprised if we have not already tested some form of this..) part of the defense against "cheap" drones is some form of an air-burst type of anti-drone munition.. Like launching (don't take this too literally..) a claymore mine into the air to detonate and send pellets into certain directions to take out the drone...
just trying to imagine what an effective anti-drone system might look like...
ETA... IAmNerd has already posted link with some version of what I have imagined..
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 11:04 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:38 am to IAmNERD
[quote]LINK ]
Israel is exploring the use of lasers to complement its iron dome system in order to address the challenge of drones and other small and slow projectiles.
I have no doubt we are watching a true sea change in air defense and air assault and I think we will look back at this as a similar transition from battleship fleets to aircraft fleets that occurred in the pacific in WWII where the old way become obsolete faster than anyone could have imagined.
Israel is exploring the use of lasers to complement its iron dome system in order to address the challenge of drones and other small and slow projectiles.
I have no doubt we are watching a true sea change in air defense and air assault and I think we will look back at this as a similar transition from battleship fleets to aircraft fleets that occurred in the pacific in WWII where the old way become obsolete faster than anyone could have imagined.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 12:11 pm to DabosDynasty
Pretty sure Ukraine has all but stopped launching their expensive air defense missiles at Shahed drones and the like. The good thing is that they fly so low and slow and have a long distance to cover from their launch sites to get anywhere in the interior of Ukraine like Kyiv that AA defense teams have time to prepare and get into position to hopefully intercept. While Patriots, IRIS-T and NASAMS get (and rightfully so) a lot of the attention, the unsung heroes of Ukrainian air defense against the hoards of cheap drones being sent at civilian areas are hundreds of small 2-3 man teams with old Soviet DShK machine guns mounted on the back of pickup trucks with searchlights. They can keep in contact through cellphones or radios to coordinate what teams have the best chance to intercept. The success of these basic weapons setups have even so good that they are a main reason why Russia has started sending swarms of 20-50 drones at a time in order to overwhelm these teams and ensure at least a few get through and hit something.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 12:12 pm to ned nederlander
We did a laser from a ball turret from a plane already. Not sure where that went due nothing more in the news about it over the last several years.
The US demonstrated drone swarms with the drones communicating with each other already.
The netting/mesh protected defense system was posted months ago.
One of the things hit near the cost (Mariupol) was a signal jammer. There are a lot of frequencies to seek out to find which one to jam.
Remember that the first week or so, signal jamming wasn't used due old Soviet aircraft used same frequencies as Russian aircraft, so no jamming with their own planes over Ukrainian airspace
The US demonstrated drone swarms with the drones communicating with each other already.
The netting/mesh protected defense system was posted months ago.
One of the things hit near the cost (Mariupol) was a signal jammer. There are a lot of frequencies to seek out to find which one to jam.
Remember that the first week or so, signal jamming wasn't used due old Soviet aircraft used same frequencies as Russian aircraft, so no jamming with their own planes over Ukrainian airspace
Posted on 5/30/23 at 12:17 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
Pretty sure Ukraine has all but stopped launching their expensive air defense missiles at Shahed drones and the like. The good thing is that they fly so low and slow and have a long distance to cover from their launch sites to get anywhere in the interior of Ukraine like Kyiv that AA defense teams have time to prepare and get into position to hopefully intercept.
Is there evidence of this or are we just assuming?
Page 2795 of 3923
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News