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Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:00 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I agree with you, but a no knock warrant means you just bust the door down and go in. They announced themselves many times before they went in which means it wasn't a no knock warrant
If you’re asleep or in the shower, for all practical purposes, yelling “Police Department!” for 10 seconds before deciding to bust the door open is virtually a no-knock raid.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:06 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I agree with you, but a no knock warrant means you just bust the door down and go in. They announced themselves many times before they went in which means it wasn't a no knock warrant.
Meh. That's a distinction without a difference.
I can tell you straight up that had that been my door, my first actual awareness of them would have been when the door busted down. My BR isn't close to the front door and I sleep like a fricking stone. Hell, those fricker's might've made it all the way to my room before I was 100% coherent. Regardless, functionally, THAT shite is no knock.
To me, there's 2 flavors of warrants. Either you knock and I answer such that we both know who we're talking to, or you don't.
Now, if you knock, I answer, you say police, and I refuse to open and THEN you bust in, THAT is OK although, I'll be honest, it ain't really necessary. I mean.........where am I gonna go?
You bust in while having no idea if I even know you're there? That's no-knock. And it's bullshite.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:07 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
If you’re asleep or in the shower, for all practical purposes, yelling “Police Department!” for 10 seconds before deciding to bust the door open is virtually a no-knock raid.
Exactly.
Saying it isn't a no knock is just bureaucratic bull shite calling a triangle a pyramid.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:16 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Meh. That's a distinction without a difference.
It's literally not. It's extremely cut and dry. One has a notification prior to breaching and one doesn't.
I don't know how I can make that more cut and dry
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:23 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
t's literally not. It's extremely cut and dry. One has a notification prior to breaching and one doesn't.
I don't know how I can make that more cut and dry
Depending on the hour of night, if you ABSOLUTELY have to serve a warrant in the middle of the night, you may have more success announcing yourself if you just walk around and bang on the windows and yelling “Police!” at the window, until you roust the homeowner from their sleep.
Knocking on the door and yelling loudly for a few brief moments before breaching the front door seems like a poor way to announce yourself in the middle of the night.
That is, if you actually have a good faith intention to announce yourself and are not just CYA so that when you start blasting you can say “I announced myself.”
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:25 pm to fr33manator
quote:cough David Koresh cough
I mean, seems like they could have just waited until he went to the store or something and then arrested him at his vehicle. Far more people were put in danger with this gestapo shite. No need, no justification.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:26 pm to upgrayedd
quote:This just isn't accurate in practice as already explained.
It's literally not. It's extremely cut and dry. One has a notification prior to breaching and one doesn't.
quote:Notification, BY frickING DEFINITION, means the other person has to ACTUALLY be notified.
I don't know how I can make that more cut and dry
In that video, had it been my door, there is NO WAY WHATSEOEVER I would have heard it from my bedroom. If you call THAT "notification", then they might as well yell it from the street...........or hell, just after they leave the police station.
Please to throw pretense at me like you don't understand this problem. Sheesh. Hell, they do this shite when people's BRs are UPSTAIRS! frick, when I had an upstairs BR, you could have literally used a loudspeaker for 10 seconds before busting the door and I wouldn't have heard it.
And for frick's sake, don't come at me like it's somehow the resident's responsibility to hear that shite. It ain't.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:27 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
That is, if you actually have a good faith intention to announce yourself and are not just CYA so that when you start blasting you can say “I announced myself.”
DING
DING
DING
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:30 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:31 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
what if they say they're the police for ten seconds before breaking down the door?
Anyone can say that they’re the police.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:31 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
This post was edited on 1/19/22 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
They announced themselves many times before they went in which means it wasn't a no knock warrant.
In the middle of the night why should I believe any random dude banging on my door yelling “police” are actually police?
these types of raids aren’t safe for the cops, for the suspect, and for any neighbors. completely unnecessary
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:35 pm to Eighteen
quote:
In the middle of the night why should I believe any random dude banging on my door yelling “police” are actually police?
He's being silly trying to draw a difference.
If you are a government official and the difference between "no knock" and "not no knock" is you notifying me.........then it is YOUR frickING RESPONSIBILITY to ensure I'm notified.
Absent that, you didn't notify me no matter how hard you want to stretch that technicality.
Frankly, I think failure to notify.......REALLY notify, should make me killing your arse legit.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:36 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
what if they say they're the police for ten seconds before breaking down the door?
Then it's not a no-knock warrant
at least from what we can tell from the video, they only announced for 5-6 seconds before the battering ram hit the door. Knock-and-announce criteria requires a reasonable amount of time for the occupant to allow their entry.
im not sure 6 seconds is a reasonable timeframe for someone sleeping in the dead of night. police state gonna police state. bootlickers gonna bootlick
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:37 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
what if they say they're the police for ten seconds before breaking down the door?
Then you can give the person a chance to look out the window or something to see that you are in legit cop cars and whatnot?
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:38 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Just a hypothetical. What about a hostage situation, maybe a stand off. Let’s say people have already been killed. Negotiations have been on going and break down for whatever reason. Maybe it’s apparent the guy is about to kill more people. Should a no knock be legal or illegal then?
ETA: example: Unless No knock is specified the laws in some states don’t allow forced entry.
ETA: example: Unless No knock is specified the laws in some states don’t allow forced entry.
This post was edited on 1/19/22 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:41 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
think no knock warrants should be illegal, but that wasn't a no knock warrant
The battering ram knocking down the door isn’t consider knocking,
This post was edited on 1/19/22 at 9:51 pm
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:41 pm to Mister Bigfish
quote:
Just a hypothetical. What about a hostage situation, maybe a stand off. Let’s say people have already been killed. Negotiations have been on going and break down for whatever reason. Maybe it’s apparent the guy is about to kill more people. Should a no knock be legal or illegal then?
There's already a caveat for exigent circumstances. They don't even require a warrant to enter.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 9:41 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
It's literally not. It's extremely cut and dry. One has a notification prior to breaching and one doesn't.
I don't know how I can make that more cut and dry
the other one also has a requirement for a reasonable amount of time to allow entry. so its not a no-knock, nor is it a proper knock-and-announce.
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