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Urban Meyer was never an OC, let that sink in
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:30 pm
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:30 pm
As a coach, the highest position before being a head coach that Meyer had was as a WR coach.
He also coached DBs, OLB, QB, and WR.
I am not pushing for Orgeron as coach, but it is clear that a successful head coach does not need coordinator experience.
In fact, Meyer has won 3 NCs in the last 10 years at two schools with jumping from position coach to head coach.
People really need to understand there is a reason a ton of head coaches that were former DC's struggle on their own side of the ball when they become head coaches. Being head coach is more about managing your assistants and the players than calling plays and interfering.
Dabo Swinney is another example of a successful assistant/position coach that didn't need coordinator experience and took his team to an NC and possibly another one this year.
He also coached DBs, OLB, QB, and WR.
I am not pushing for Orgeron as coach, but it is clear that a successful head coach does not need coordinator experience.
In fact, Meyer has won 3 NCs in the last 10 years at two schools with jumping from position coach to head coach.
People really need to understand there is a reason a ton of head coaches that were former DC's struggle on their own side of the ball when they become head coaches. Being head coach is more about managing your assistants and the players than calling plays and interfering.
Dabo Swinney is another example of a successful assistant/position coach that didn't need coordinator experience and took his team to an NC and possibly another one this year.
17
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:36 pm to Geauxgurt
O was a head coach before and failed miserably, this is everybody's concern and rightfully so. Another huge red flag is the fact nobody has tried to hire him as a head coach since ole miss.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:39 pm to Geauxgurt
Urban Meyer is also one of the best coaches to ever live. Comparing people to him is not fair to either party.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:40 pm to Geauxgurt
Yea and he was a successful head coach at 2 programs. So with your analogy, you're saying we shouldn't hire O just yet and let him coach somewhere else to prove himself as a full time coach before we make him one. That's a good idea
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:40 pm to Geauxgurt
he also never went 0-8 in conference and got fired either.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:45 pm to Brazos
quote:
O was a head coach before and failed miserably, this is everybody's concern and rightfully so. Another huge red flag is the fact nobody has tried to hire him as a head coach since ole miss.
Sometimes when coaches get their first shots, they don't pan out.
Bellichik didn't make it in Cleveland, then is considered a GOAT coach in New England.
Pete Carroll wasn't so hot in New England, but turned USC and the Seahawks into championship teams.
Sometimes the first go around happens too early, at the wrong time, etc.
O may still fail but the past is just that, the past. He also may have learned from his mistakes and what went wrong.
Saban is a better coach by miles for his failures in the NFL. Sometimes it takes those types of experiences to make you a better coach.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:48 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Sometimes when coaches get their first shots, they don't pan out.
Bellichik didn't make it in Cleveland, then is considered a GOAT coach in New England.
Pete Carroll wasn't so hot in New England, but turned USC and the Seahawks into championship teams.
Sometimes the first go around happens too early, at the wrong time, etc.
O may still fail but the past is just that, the past. He also may have learned from his mistakes and what went wrong.
Saban is a better coach by miles for his failures in the NFL. Sometimes it takes those types of experiences to make you a better coach.
For frick sakes man.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:53 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:Who cares. Not everyone thinks the next coach needs to have been a coordinator. It's not a requirement, IMO.
Urban Meyer was never an OC
However, previous success is a requirement.
And with a failure as big as Ole Miss on O's resume, normally it would take years of success at a smaller program to erase that. And even then a bigger program like us would be hesitant.
Meyer AND Dabo do not have anywhere near the failure that O has.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:56 pm to Clockwatcher68
quote:
For frick sakes man.
Again, I am not advocating for Coach O as head coach. I would much prefer an experienced and successful HC like Fisher. I am not sold on Herman as I think he may be another over-hyped mediocre coach that benefited from a great situation.
In the end, LSU could do much worse than O, but should do better given the circumstances.
I am just sick of people using his lack of mastery of one side of the ball as a coordinator as a knock on his validity as a candidate. His past is part of the process that should be brought into account, but I think people are over-weighting his time at Ole Miss and ignoring his potential.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:56 pm to Geauxgurt
Ed Orgeron is no Urban Meyer.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 8:57 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Meyer AND Dabo do not have anywhere near the failure that O has.
True, but neither took over a situation like O did at Ole Miss.
That said, I don't think O is a Meyer level coach. Just pointing out to those that keep saying O not having an expertise over an entire side of the ball as a disqualifier.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:12 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
For frick sakes man.
Again, I am not advocating for Coach O as head coach. I would much prefer an experienced and successful HC like Fisher. I am not sold on Herman as I think he may be another over-hyped mediocre coach that benefited from a great situation.
In the end, LSU could do much worse than O, but should do better given the circumstances.
I am just sick of people using his lack of mastery of one side of the ball as a coordinator as a knock on his validity as a candidate. His past is part of the process that should be brought into account, but I think people are over-weighting his time at Ole Miss and ignoring his potential.
He says for fricks sake man because you're not saying anything new here. We know Urban Meyer, Pete Carrol, Bill B. All those guys. They were also very successful in other ways before they blew up at a major university or program. It's not like they just went from being a shitty HC to be a top notch one like some people think O will do.
No one will argue that O has potential he is just much further down the list of qualified potential hires. I mean be sick of people using it against O all you want, but then you would be implying that Meyer, Bill, and Carrol are NOT masters on one side of the ball, which they are.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:13 pm to Geauxgurt
Orgeron has neither a good record as a head coach nor a demonstrated ability to be an outstanding coordinator who can maintain excellence on one side of the ball.
Those are the two best qualifications you can have to get a major head coaching job. He lacks both.
The argument that the Meyer example implies we should overlook Orgeron's history is wrong in just about every way because:
1) Meyer had a sustained history of building programs at two institutions as head coach before getting the Florida job.
2) Meyer obviously does have significant expertise (esp offense but also defense) that qualified him to make his teams successful without being dependent upon his coordinators to make up for his lack of superior coaching.
Neither of these things are remotely comparable with Orgeron. This is not dislike. I like Orgeron. I value him and would love him to stay at LSU and be a recruiting coordinator/DL coach for the next head coach. But if he wants to be a head coach he has to show the ability to build and sustain a program somewhere else... or really become the brains behind a complete offense/defense - to be a higher quality football mind than he has shown himself to be decades into his career.
If you hire him with the intention of having him rely upon Aranda and a new OC you might as well just hire Aranda or the new OC candidate to be the head coach, because it is their skill set that will be identified for promotion by other major schools.
Those are the two best qualifications you can have to get a major head coaching job. He lacks both.
The argument that the Meyer example implies we should overlook Orgeron's history is wrong in just about every way because:
1) Meyer had a sustained history of building programs at two institutions as head coach before getting the Florida job.
2) Meyer obviously does have significant expertise (esp offense but also defense) that qualified him to make his teams successful without being dependent upon his coordinators to make up for his lack of superior coaching.
Neither of these things are remotely comparable with Orgeron. This is not dislike. I like Orgeron. I value him and would love him to stay at LSU and be a recruiting coordinator/DL coach for the next head coach. But if he wants to be a head coach he has to show the ability to build and sustain a program somewhere else... or really become the brains behind a complete offense/defense - to be a higher quality football mind than he has shown himself to be decades into his career.
If you hire him with the intention of having him rely upon Aranda and a new OC you might as well just hire Aranda or the new OC candidate to be the head coach, because it is their skill set that will be identified for promotion by other major schools.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:13 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
True, but neither took over a situation like O did at Ole Miss.
Huh? Ole Miss had a much better record before O came in. What are you talking about???
please read the list of coaches and their win and loss % before O and then rethink what you said.
This post was edited on 10/27/16 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:15 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
True, but neither took over a situation like O did at Ole Miss.
Cutcliff was 44-29 at Ole Miss and a year removed from a 10-3 "Co-SEC West Champions" season when he was fired. 2004 was the ONLY losing season he had there.
Orgeron didn't walk into quite as bad a situation as some people want to believe. The only Ole Miss head coaches worse than Orgeron coached from 1915-1918. Let that sink in.
As for Meyer, he may never have been a coordinator, but he worked his way up to a big time job. He was 17-6 at Bowling Green and 22-2 at Utah and was head coach of the first "BCS Buster."
Sweeney is an exception, not a rule.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:18 pm to Geauxgurt
You sure you aren't an O homer? You're pressing really hard to forget about his worst HC qualities and only focus on his interim work. Yes. I know what you typed, but you don't seem to fully evaluate the statements you're making in his defense.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:19 pm to Geauxgurt
Bravo! A+++ post. Make this guy a MOD!
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:20 pm to abellsujr
There have been plenty of people saying that O shouldn't be a candidate simply due to him never being a coordinator. Those same people would rather Aranda than O.
OP makes good points.
O is 9-2 in his last 11 games at USC and LSU. That's success in my book.
OP makes good points.
O is 9-2 in his last 11 games at USC and LSU. That's success in my book.
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:21 pm to Wayne Campbell
There have been, I believe, 2 head coaches at ole miss to finish their tenures over .500 in the SEC over the last 40-50 years. Cutcliff and Freeze at the moment. Don't act like he was just primed for success there lol
This post was edited on 10/27/16 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 10/27/16 at 9:25 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Cutcliff and Freeze at the moment. Don't act like he was just primed for success there lol
So Cutcliff and freeze need to be ahead of O in the hiring process. Got it.
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