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re: Trust Orgeron?
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:24 am to BayouCowboy
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:24 am to BayouCowboy
Here's the deal:
Orgeron has proven to recognize a mistake quickly and to at least attempt to fix it. He's going to make mistakes again with hires. It's inevitable. It happens to everyone. As long as he continues to fix those mistakes quickly and not let his pride get in the way, we'll be fine long term.
Orgeron has proven to recognize a mistake quickly and to at least attempt to fix it. He's going to make mistakes again with hires. It's inevitable. It happens to everyone. As long as he continues to fix those mistakes quickly and not let his pride get in the way, we'll be fine long term.
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Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:34 am to Alt26
I’m gonna wait and see who he hires before I melt or celebrate
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:36 am to Goldrush25
quote:
That's a thoughtful, well-reasoned post but you had to know you were going to get downvoted to hell for it.
No, it's not. It's the equivalent to:
Should we really trust the CEO of the corporation to make decisions going forward?
Should we really trust judges to make judicial decisions?
Should we really trust the president to make presidential decisions?
It's just holier than thou bloviating. You either trust them, or you support their removal. Because it's their job to do.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:36 am to Alt26
quote:
When O was named the permanent HC he inherited and kept Miles's defensive staff: Aranda, Raymond, and to some degree, himself, as DL coach. His only "new" hire was the promotion of Meatball, who I've seen many on here criticize
Meatball apparently impressed Aranda since he tried to hire him at Baylor.
quote:
Offensively, his first OC hire was Canada. Which, for various reasons, was a flop. The offense had its moments, but was far from great AND LSU had to eat a substantial chunk of money to cut him loose after one year.
Obviously they didn't mesh and Canada thinking he could go over his HC to Alleva was a serious issue.
quote:
His first WR hire was Joseph. Now, we know Joseph was really hired to recruit NOLA. But apparently his lack of coaching ability necessitated the hiring of retired Jerry Sullivan just so someone could actually coach the WR's (a group that struggled mightily in 2018)
We had 2 true FR starting and a 2 star WR that was playing at a 5 star level. 2019 they matured an flourished in a better system. To Brady's credit he implemented some modern drills as well that helped a lot. He's brought in some elite WR talent and likely has learned from Sullivan and Brady.
quote:
Tommie Robinson was the RB coach hire and many here have complained significantly about his recruiting ability.
How did our 3 star RB do this season? He even made Brossette a 1000yd rusher last season.
quote:
Then, after firing Canada, O put Ensminger in the OC role. I know Ensminger has "redeemed" himself with this year's offensive performance. But did we just forget that 2018, without Brady, was as average as most LSU's offenses this decade. Did E, at 60, really just all of a sudden get that much better? Or did it have almost everything to do with Brady?
Scheme, inexperience at EVERY skill position (new starting WRs at every position, 2 new RBs, a new QB) and injuries had an effect. Only Morreau had experience. OL injuries and a new OL coach with a new blocking (zone) scheme.
quote:
Bill Busch was a big hire (if for nothing else that he was THE connection to get Burrow to LSU). But by all accounts that was a Dave Aranda hire granted to him as part of the incentive package to keep him at LSU when A&M made a run at him in 2018
It's still the HC that makes the call and being able to bring in Busch without pissing off and losing Raymond likely took a lot of maneuvering.
Go to the Bama boards and I'm sure they gripe about Saban's staff hires. They didn't like Lupoi until he left. They criticized the Locksley hire. They hate their current DC. It's not an exact science and you will never make everyone happy.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:38 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Should we really trust the CEO of the corporation to make decisions going forward?
What's wrong with this question?
quote:
Should we really trust judges to make judicial decisions?
Also a good question on a case by case basis.
quote:
Should we really trust the president to make presidential decisions?
Also a good question based on the president.
These aren't black and white situations, either support or support his removal. I don't know about you but don't think anyone in any position is above reproach.
This post was edited on 1/23/20 at 11:40 am
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:38 am to Alt26
quote:
O has earned the benefit of the doubt with any coaching hires because of this season
I agree
quote:
trust that O will hire great replacements simply because O is the one hiring them?
I do
No one knows what will happen, but after seeing how O has handled the last three seasons I trust him. There were some stumbling blocks, but he kept working toward his goal, is committed to this program, and will do everything in his power to sustain what he has built.
I responded that way because I know there are still people that are waiting for him to fail, no matter what he does. I know there will always be those though. Guess that's the beauty of a message board.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:43 am to Goldrush25
Yes. I agree. You either trust them, or support their removal.
It's either/or.
You apparently don't trust the president, which is fine. Then you are for his removal (or at least against his re-election). If you don't trust a CEO to do a basic function of his duties, then you support his removal.
It's OK to not trust Coach O. That's fine. But you can't support him and also not trust him to do one of the basic functions of his job.
Just come out and say you don't like him and want him removed. You can't have it both ways.
It's either/or.
You apparently don't trust the president, which is fine. Then you are for his removal (or at least against his re-election). If you don't trust a CEO to do a basic function of his duties, then you support his removal.
It's OK to not trust Coach O. That's fine. But you can't support him and also not trust him to do one of the basic functions of his job.
Just come out and say you don't like him and want him removed. You can't have it both ways.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:00 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
holy shite I don't trust anybody to make the correct decision 100% of the time
what an absurd take
This post was edited on 1/23/20 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:03 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
es. I agree. You either trust them, or support their removal.
It's either/or.
No not really.
quote:
It's OK to not trust Coach O. That's fine. But you can't support him and also not trust him to do one of the basic functions of his job.
Maybe you can't. My opinions are more nuanced.
Even if I think the coach fails to meet a standard in a certain aspect of his job, ultimately it may not matter if the coach far exceeds standards in another part . of his job. Football is probabilistic, so a coach can make up the difference elsewhere. No singular factor will guarantee success or failure.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:04 pm to Alt26
After this past season, I’d say yes: trust Orgeron.
He’s earned some trust.
He’s earned some trust.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:05 pm to BayouCowboy
quote:
Locksley
One of the most overrated coaches in America (Broyles Award overlooked some great coaches to give it to him). His success at Bama proves its the system.
6-40 as a head coach. Before he came to Bama, he had experienced only 3 winning seasons as a HC or OC (out of 11).
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:07 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Just come out and say you don't like him and want him removed. You can't have it both ways.
there’s a certain subset of posters who never wanted him hired and are looking for any cracks in the armor. It’s tired after 3 years and a NC
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:11 pm to Salmon
quote:
I don't trust anybody to make the correct decision 100% of the time
what an absurd take
What percentage of the time do you trust them? And it's not about making the correct decision every time. It's about overall management. People point to the Canada situation as one of his failures. I think it is a success, because he quickly realized it was a mistake and took action.
The decisions he made led us to a national championship.
No coach is infallible. No person is infallible. I think Orgeron has shown that he usually makes good decisions. And when he makes a bad one, he quickly resolves it.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:11 pm to The Pirate King
your moral preening is hilarious Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:14 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
No coach is infallible. No person is infallible. I think Orgeron has shown that he usually makes good decisions. And when he makes a bad one, he quickly resolves it.
Absolutely.
But this isn't what you said in the previous post.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:15 pm to Alt26
quote:
Offensively, his first OC hire was Canada. Which, for various reasons, was a flop. The offense had its moments, but was far from great AND LSU had to eat a substantial chunk of money to cut him loose after one year.
This and
quote:
Then, after firing Canada, O put Ensminger in the OC role. I know Ensminger has "redeemed" himself with this year's offensive performance. But did we just forget that 2018, without Brady, was as average as most LSU's offenses this decade. Did E, at 60, really just all of a sudden get that much better? Or did it have almost everything to do with Brady?
Led to O saying frick it and move towards a modern pass happy offense that you saw last year. Before then O wanted to emulate the early 2000s usc offenses. That caused the conflict between O and Canada and ultimately led to E running a relatively similar offense as the rest of Os tenure.
Now that the cat is out of the bag you’re not going to see LSU start getting back in the I anytime soon. Also if E is to be believed, Brady brought the playbook but E still called the majority of the plays and put together gameplans. It’s not like starting over from scratch.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:24 pm to Salmon
quote:
Absolutely.
But this isn't what you said in the previous post.
Trusting the person to make the decision is not the same as expecting the correct decision to be made every time. You are confusing the two.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:28 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
I think you are playing the semantics game now.
In general, I (and I believe this to be true among all LSU fans) trust O to continue his success. He has earned that.
That doesn't mean that we should just blindly trust him to always make the right hires, which is the point of this thread.
In general, I (and I believe this to be true among all LSU fans) trust O to continue his success. He has earned that.
That doesn't mean that we should just blindly trust him to always make the right hires, which is the point of this thread.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:33 pm to Salmon
What is the alternative?
You don't blindly trust him. What now?
You don't blindly trust him. What now?
Posted on 1/23/20 at 12:35 pm to Alt26
quote:
Alt26
This is all true and I have been thinking about making a similar post.
Earning trust is not created equal.
The guy who changes my oil is not the guy, potentially who you go to for a new engine.
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