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re: Herman has 2 loses to teams they should have beaten PJ Fleck is still undefeated
Posted on 10/24/16 at 6:05 am to Roscoe
Posted on 10/24/16 at 6:05 am to Roscoe
Hard to say if they quit. I hope they haven't. Honestly though, these are 18-22 year olds. Thinking about your head coach not being there after the season, could be playing on their minds
1
Posted on 10/24/16 at 6:05 am to 0
quote:
I'm just saying that expecting him to go from what he is doing now to competing in the sec is a huge jump both in competition and exposure. He needs to prove himself somewhere besides the Mac.
Yet urban can go from mountain west to sec.
Malzahn sun belt to sec
Freeze from sunbelt to sec
Macelwain from mountain west to sec.
Sumlin from american to sec
So it's only the Mac?
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 7:27 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:21 am to dos crystal
quote:
dos crystal
You forgot Spurrier coming from Duke
Fulmer being promoted from OC (zero HC experience)
Jimbo promoted OC (zero HC experience)
Stoops DC with zero HC experience
Butch Davis to Miami with zero HC experience
Chip Kelly Promoted OC
The narrow mindedness of the avg fan would have missed out on these great hires as well. Glad they are not making this decision.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:24 am to shoelessjoe
Hiring a coach based off the immediate season performance is the exact definition of a reactionary hire and that is how you end up destroying programs
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:25 am to saint amant steve
quote:
Did Fleck's team beat Florida State or Oklahoma in the last 12 months?
I'll hang up and listen...
Actually, His team beat Northwestern who is leading their division in the Big X.
If you are really comparing the two resume's I believe Fleck's is the better of the Two.
1) Both as a h.c. (Fleck built a program over a four year period and bringing that program to a level it's never seen). It show's his ability to recruit and develop players. Herman inherited Houston program that was well established before him. (Briles, Sumlin, etc built that program., he's done well with it but starting to see some shaky moments how will he and his players respond? we know how fleck responded after a one win season. He improved the next year, and the next, and the next. herman is more of enigma/unknown)
2) A lot of people say Herman gets the edge due to coordinator experience. However. some of the top coaches in the game today have never been a coordinator. (Harbaugh, Meyer, and Swinny). So, is that really an edge? Additionally, Feck has Two years more as a h.c. than Herman. Is being coordinator more of an edge than h.c. experience?
3) Fleck has played and coached at the n.f.l. level. Herman has not. So when people talk about pressure, scheme, game prep, etc. You really think Fleck wasn't exposed to any of this at the n.f.l. level? You don't think he had to break down tape, study his opponent, learn about the press, etc as a player and coach in the n.f.l.?
Is Herman a good coach? very well could be. However, He is still a unknown commodity. I think Fleck is more of a known product than Herman. Who will be better over time? only time will tell. At this point, to suggest Herman is that much better of a coach is speculation without merit.
To say, well, he beat fsu and oklahoma. Well curley hallman beat alabama, Watson brown beat saban/lsu, and some unknown coach at ULM beat saban/alabama. Where are those coaches today?
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 7:32 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:56 am to dos crystal
quote:
Actually, His team beat Northwestern who is leading their division in the Big X.
Northwestern is 4-3 overall and 3-1 in the BIG 10.
Nebraska is 4-0 in conference play. Therefore, Northwestern is not leading the west division.
But great job trying to prove that Western Michigan has beat any team worth a shite in the last three years.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:08 am to saint amant steve
quote:
Nebraska is 4-0 in conference play. Therefore, Northwestern is not leading the west division.
ok, my bad, they are second in their division. I was WAY OFF.
Well, hell. That settles it. He beat oklahoma. However, getting his arse handed to him by a piss poor SMU team that has won three games doesn't matter.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:22 am to dos crystal
#ReauxTheDamnBeauxt
People dismissing fleck are either closed minded or not doing any real research.
I still think herman would be my #1 but fleck is a close second along with jimbo.
People dismissing fleck are either closed minded or not doing any real research.
I still think herman would be my #1 but fleck is a close second along with jimbo.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:35 am to lsu777
Ignorant is the proper word.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:36 am to shoelessjoe
Idgaf what anyone says, as soon as a team finds out their coach is gone in a situation like this, they tap out... don't be surprised to see Houston lose another game or two... they don't want to play for him anymore
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 8:37 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:37 am to Laman1978
quote:
It's unbelievable how much attention is paid to these flash in the pan coaches that have proven nothing more than being competitive at the top of a mid major conference.
in fleck's defense, he's taken one of the worst 1A programs to places nobody in the history of CFB has before
i mean WMU had never won a bowl before his regime
they had never beaten a B10 team
they had never beaten a ranked team
they had never been ranked in the AP, iirc
it's not just that he's a "flash in the pan" as much as he's built literally one of the worst 1A programs into a good team. it's remarkable and has been a process over a few years (and the bowl game was last year)
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's not just that he's a "flash in the pan" as much as he's built literally one of the worst 1A programs into a good team. it's remarkable and has been a process over a few years (and the bowl game was last year)
Exactly, the guy built the program from scratch. He isn't a flash in the pan. If some of the posters here would just listen to the guy speak, watch the way he coaches and they would understand why some of us like him so much.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:55 am to SlowFlowPro
Yep. And Houston won 8 games the year before Herman got there and returned most of their players. Herman has never really had to turn anything around.
Granted, he wouldn't really have to turn LSU around either.
Granted, he wouldn't really have to turn LSU around either.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:59 am to Roscoe
I believe Herman is in discussions with both lsu and UT behind the scenes. He knows he's leaving. His players suspect it. This stuff always impacts the performance when a coach is on the way out. Every time. Look at Saban in o4'. Look at Chavis in his last bowl game at lsu.
Herman is a beast of a coach.
Herman is a beast of a coach.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:13 am to 0
quote:
There are good high school teams that could compete in the Mac
This is almost as dumb as people saying Bama could beat the Browns quote:
What Fleck is doing is great but the competition is lousy
Relative to LSU or the SEC the MAC is "lousy" but for other MAC schools they are peers. You judge teams/coaches for how the perform at their level, not based on some standard because that level is a mid tier level.
quote:
and not an indicator of how he would do literally anywhere else in the country.
The is no magic formula, period. So people need to quit looking for one. You hire a coach based on his resume and hope if works out.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:28 am to shoelessjoe
So herman isn't a god afterall? surprise, surprise.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:45 am to shoelessjoe
I think either Fleck or Herman would be great hires
The only thing i have a problem with are the people pimping Herman but acting like Fleck "isn't ready"
The only thing i have a problem with are the people pimping Herman but acting like Fleck "isn't ready"
Posted on 10/24/16 at 9:48 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I think either Fleck or Herman would be great hires
exactly. I agree with Ryno, herman to me looks like the next great one and I believe his team knows he is leaving. But when I look at Fleck and really study him I also feel like he is another one that is destined for greatness.
To me fleck is more like urban than herman is. But I honestly believe both are destined to be great coaches.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:00 am to dos crystal
quote:
ok, my bad, they are second in their division. I was WAY OFF.
They are second in a shitty division. Northwestern is a 7-5 team at best.
quote:
However, getting his arse handed to him by a piss poor SMU team that has won three games doesn't matter.
During his tenure at Western Michigan, Fleck's biggest blemishes include:
-Loss at home to 4-8 FCS Nicholls
-18-point loss at home to Kent State
-Loss to Toledo by 27
-Shutout 33-0 at home against Buffalo
-21-point loss at home to Ball State
-Loss at 2-10 Eastern Michigan whose only win against an FBS team that year was against Fleck's Western Michigan
-26-point loss to Georgia Southern
It's not that the loss doesn't matter, but you have to consider the fact that Houston was playing a rivalry game on the road. That was the biggest game on SMU's schedule.
Herman doesn't have the luxury of having a near-automatic talent advantage in the majority of the games he coaches. If his players fail to execute, turn the ball over, or make uncharacteristic mistakes, then the result is a loss. Yes, it does remove some of the luster to his shining resume, but he is still light year's ahead of Fleck in regards to current accomplishments.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:04 am to saint amant steve
quote:
During his tenure at Western Michigan, Fleck's biggest blemishes include:
-Loss at home to 4-8 FCS Nicholls
-18-point loss at home to Kent State
-Loss to Toledo by 27
-Shutout 33-0 at home against Buffalo
-21-point loss at home to Ball State
-Loss at 2-10 Eastern Michigan whose only win against an FBS team that year was against Fleck's Western Michigan
-26-point loss to Georgia Southern
I would respond to this but Fleck himself has the best one possible:
LINK
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