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Message
re: Herman has 2 loses to teams they should have beaten PJ Fleck is still undefeated
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:06 am to jamalsdeck
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:06 am to jamalsdeck
quote:
Herman has beaten multiple ranked teams with inferior talent
He's riding Greg Ward.
2
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:13 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
He's riding Greg Ward.
or is Greg Ward riding Herman?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:36 am to Salmon
quote:
He's riding Greg Ward.
or is Greg Ward riding Herman?
I'm gonna start calling this Curly Hallman syndrome. Hallman had Brett Favre at USM and got the LSU job. 3-4 years later, Favre emerges as an NFL star and everyone says Hallman only won at USM because he had Favre. Now, anytime we have a coach that does well and has a QB that plays well, we get comments like this.
This just in, you need good players to win. Herman as an OC helped win a NC with a 3rd string QB. Braxton Miller was all B1G, Barrett was first team all B1G. QB's have played well where ever he has been.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 10:52 am to H-Town Tiger
Except Greg Ward wont be the next Bret Favre
System QB in a System;
Which is fine. Prefereable in college where you only get 4 years with a player.
Plug and Play is looking way better. I don't give a frick if they know how to play NFL football.
System QB in a System;
Which is fine. Prefereable in college where you only get 4 years with a player.
Plug and Play is looking way better. I don't give a frick if they know how to play NFL football.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:48 am to saint amant steve
quote:
you have to consider the fact that Houston was playing a rivalry game on the road. That was the biggest game on SMU's schedule.
would you be good with LSU getting beat by 20 on the road to MSU.?
quote:
Herman doesn't have the luxury of having a near-automatic talent advantage in the majority of the games he coaches. If his players fail to execute, turn the ball over, or make uncharacteristic mistakes, then the result is a loss. Yes, it does remove some of the luster to his shining resume, but he is still light year's ahead of Fleck in regards to current accomplishments.
However, Fleck has the luxury of an automatic talent advantage at W. Michigan?
How is he light years ahead of Fleck in current accomplishments? His team won 8 games prior to his arrival. Most of the players he is coaching were there prior to him. Houston has had success before from a number of coaches. Fleck's team is in their fourth year with him. All the players are his. His team is reaching heights never seen before at W. Michigan.
I'm not saying Herman isn't a good coach. However, Larry freaking Coker won a national championship in year one, a lot of games in year two. After that, what? To me, what you are in year four tells more about your ability than what you are in year one or two. Look at saban's first year at leu and bama. nothing to write home about. However, the teams got better and better. Isn't that what you look for?
When you have a coach bringing a program to uncharted territory, then you need to take a look at that guy. To dismiss him is really not smart at all.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:53 am to dos crystal
quote:can't deny the logic in this post - people having a hard time jumping off the Herman band wagon after going all in so early. Even more laughable is them explaining away the losses due to the players quitting on him. as if that doesn't actually make it a WORSE look for Herman.
However, Fleck has the luxury of an automatic talent advantage at W. Michigan?
How is he light years ahead of Fleck in current accomplishments? His team won 8 games prior to his arrival. Most of the players he is coaching were there prior to him. Houston has had success before from a number of coaches. Fleck's team is in their fourth year with him. All the players are his. His team is reaching heights never seen before at W. Michigan.
I'm not saying Herman isn't a good coach. However, Larry freaking Coker won a national championship in year one, a lot of games in year two. After that, what? To me, what you are in year four tells more about your ability than what you are in year one or two. Look at saban's first year at leu and bama. nothing to write home about. However, the teams got better and better. Isn't that what you look for?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 12:05 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Houston has had success before from a number of coaches. Fleck's team is in their fourth year with him. All the players are his. His team is reaching heights never seen before at W. Michigan.
Bill Cubit, Fleck's predecessor, was 29-20 at one point during his tenure at Western Michigan.
He had a better record than Fleck and eventually proved to be a mediocre coach.
Fleck's first team was only two years removed from a 7-win season.
quote:
However, Larry freaking Coker won a national championship in year one, a lot of games in year two.
How can you possibly make such a daft comparison?
quote:
When you have a coach bringing a program to uncharted territory, then you need to take a look at that guy. To dismiss him is really not smart at all.
WHO HAS HE BEATEN?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 12:17 pm to shoelessjoe
Posted on 10/24/16 at 12:19 pm to saint amant steve
quote:
Bill Cubit, Fleck's predecessor, was 29-20 at one point during his tenure at Western Michigan
4 out of 8 years he was .500 or less and his last season he only won 4 ball games.
You are like a politician, cherry picking facts. Fleck has improved his team each year he has been there. Cubit didn't do that at all.
quote:
How can you possibly make such a daft comparison?
Because at the time Coker looked like a great coach, now hindsight being 20/20..... not so great.
quote:
saint amant steve
being that you probably know very little about Fleck other than a little Wikipedia reading........ why are you so against him? Why are you so closed minded about him as an option?
There is nothing about him that screams failure. His team has only gotten better each year. He may or may not be the next great coach, but you seem to have something stuck in your arse about him. It's rather strange.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 1:02 pm to saint amant steve
quote:
How can you possibly make such a daft comparison?
because all you care is about who Herman beat in year one or two. However, MANY COACHES have beaten good/great teams in year one or two. Did it make Larry Coker a great coach? Did it make the Oregon coach a great coach? look at him in year 4 vs 1. Ralph Friegen, bill stewart, should i go on and on and on?
The fact you have made a total evaluation of him as a coach in 1.5 seasons, which his last three have been less than stellar, is a amazing.
I'm looking a total body of work as a h.c., does him being a o.c. for a n.c. program have merit? some, however, that doesn't determine it. Gary Crowton won a n.c. as a o.c., he did well at la tech, should we hire him?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 1:33 pm to PennyPacker
quote:
4 out of 8 years he was .500 or less and his last season he only won 4 ball games.
Yes, but how did he start? Answer: better than Fleck.
You act like it's a foregone conclusion that just because Fleck has strung together a couple of good seasons with the Broncos that he will maintain that success long-term.
quote:
You are like a politician, cherry picking facts.
I didn't cherrypick a frickin' thing.
Cubit took over a team that was a combined 10-25 during the three seasons prior to his arrival. Western Michigan was 1-10 in 2004 and Cubit proceeded to lead them to a 7-win season during his debut, an 8-win campaign the following season, and topped that off by guiding them to only their third 9-win season since 1988.
quote:
Fleck has improved his team each year he has been there. Cubit didn't do that at all.
Now who's acting like a politician? Can you honestly tell me that Cubit didn't do an outstanding job during his first four years with the program?
quote:
Because at the time Coker looked like a great coach, now hindsight being 20/20..... not so great.
Coker took over the most talented roster in college football history. That is an undisputed fact.
Coker was given the keys to a Ferrari and proceeded to run it into the ground. He was promoted from within. He was a 'yes' man.
For God's sakes, how the frick can you compare the U to Houston?
Yes, Art Briles and Kevin Sumlin had decent success at Houston, but neither of them defeated two top-5 teams.
Houston had a combined 17 losses during Tony Levine's arrival. Let's not act like Herman took over a program that was prepared to compete nationally.
quote:
being that you probably know very little about Fleck other than a little Wikipedia reading
I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was dealing with the national expert on Fleck. Please continue...
quote:
why are you so against him? Why are you so closed minded about him as an option?
WHO HAS HE BEATEN?!! Trying to make sense of this with you guys is like watching a retard try to hump a doorknob.
How is it close-minded of me to question the credentials of a coach who is only 35, has been a head coach for less than four seasons, and has no link to any championship program.
This is how you wind up with Curley Hallman 2.0. Hallman became the first coach since 1952 to win 10 games in a single season at Southern Miss. Not even Bobby Collins, who at one point was 31-4-1 and SMU during the days of the Pony Express, can claim that.
Hallman was hired after only three years of being a head coach at a mid-level program with little to no relevance.
How did that hire work out for LSU?
quote:
There is nothing about him that screams failure. His team has only gotten better each year. He may or may not be the next great coach, but you seem to have something stuck in your arse about him. It's rather strange.
There is nothing about him that screams success either.
Look, if you guys want to gamble the future of the program on some guy who has been a coach for less than a decade then have at it.
However, I am not willing to take that risk. Let him prove himself at a mid-level Power 5 program like Purdue. Let him prove he can beat the big boys of college football.
When he can claim that he has defeated at least one national champion head coach, then I would be willing to entertain the idea.
Until then, he's just another Dan Hawkins (who honestly had twice the resume Fleck currently has).
Posted on 10/24/16 at 1:42 pm to saint amant steve
I think it's perfectly fine to be skeptical of Fleck, nobody has a crystal ball and knows 100% sure what will happen. My issue is the people who want to give Herman a blank check but don't think Fleck should even get an interview. I would be happy with either coach.
I think there is. He has a clear and holistic vision of what we wants his program to be and he knows exactly what buttons to push to get from point A to point Z. He's also a fantastic communicator not only in terms of recruiting and motivating, but also also as a teacher of the game. I think all of this projects very well for him moving forward.
quote:
There is nothing about him that screams success either.
I think there is. He has a clear and holistic vision of what we wants his program to be and he knows exactly what buttons to push to get from point A to point Z. He's also a fantastic communicator not only in terms of recruiting and motivating, but also also as a teacher of the game. I think all of this projects very well for him moving forward.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 1:46 pm to dos crystal
quote:
However, MANY COACHES have beaten good/great teams in year one or two. Did it make Larry Coker a great coach?
17...17 first-round draft picks...
Are we seriously comparing the most talented roster in college football history to Houston?
Orgeron would be a more appropriate comparison to Coker...who was never a head coach before taking over at Miami.
quote:
Did it make the Oregon coach a great coach?
46-7...Oregon was 46-7 when Helfrich took over. There was no program nationally with greater momentum than Oregon circa 2010-2013. He was a gifted a championship-caliber program.
Also, what other head coaching position did he have?
quote:
Ralph Friegen
I'm sorry, I was unaware that Friedgen was the head coach at any other program other than Maryland.
Oh, you're saying he wasn't? Oh...that's right. He's also one of the best coaches that school has ever seen.
quote:
The fact you have made a total evaluation of him as a coach in 1.5 seasons, which his last three have been less than stellar, is a amazing.
Brah, it's Houston. Do you know what their average recruiting ranking has been over the last five years?
68th.
It sort of invalidates your comparison with Coker and Helfrich.
Also, he has been a record-setting offensive coordinator at three separate programs.
Gary Crowton was 21-13 at Louisiana Tech and 26-23 at BYU.
Tom Herman is currently 19-3.
Are you starting to see how stupid this argument sounds?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 1:57 pm to saint amant steve
quote:
saint amant steve
I can appreciate your passion but it's over shadowed by your ignorance. Your constant desire to bash a coach that has done nothing but recruit to the highest level of his conference, improve his team every year, and take a program to a level nobody before him has done just shows your narrow-mindedness!! My entire argument is for LSU to keep all options open not eliminate them at this stage in the process, then hire the best candidate possible. Your attitude is the exact type that would keep the program playing 2nd fiddle. I guess that fits the ignorant agenda..... it's like arguing with a Hillary Supporter.
Let the coaches entire body of work speak for itself (coaching records, interviews, background research, etc.)
Posted on 10/24/16 at 2:03 pm to 0
Didnt Urban go from the MAC to the SEC?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 2:08 pm to shoelessjoe
dicks out for PJ flick?? 
Posted on 10/24/16 at 2:11 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
He's riding Greg Ward.
like braxton miller...oh wait....JT barrett....oh wait
I meant 3rd stringer CARDALE JONES???
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:55 pm to PennyPacker
quote:
PennyPacker
You are deflecting like a motherfricker. And your ad hominem bullshite doesn't work with me, Pal.
I'm not bashing a coach. I'm questioning why so many of you guys have such a hard-on for him.
Maybe he is great, but based on my critical evaluation, he hasn't done enough to warrant consideration.
quote:
Your attitude is the exact type that would keep the program playing 2nd fiddle.
And what attitude is that? Is the fact that I'm not willing to suck off Fleck upsetting to you?
I am the unequivocal antithesis of a fan willing to settle for mediocrity. Get your facts straight before you try to throw shite on the wall and have it stick with me.
quote:
I guess that fits the ignorant agenda..... it's like arguing with a Hillary Supporter.
Are you acting as though ignorance is a one-way street?
quote:
Let the coaches entire body of work speak for itself (coaching records, interviews, background research, etc.)
I am. Why do you think I like Herman? It's because he has all of those attributes you just listed.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:21 pm to saint amant steve
Did someone actually compare Herman to Coker?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:27 pm to JOHNN
quote:
Didnt Urban go from the MAC to the SEC?
Bowling Green to Utah and then to Florida.
Becoming progressively better as he moved to bigger and better jobs. I do think the stop in Utah was likely important to him though. Jumping from Bowling Green to Florida straight away would have been an incredible change in pretty much everything.
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