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Message
re: Here are the Positives If Random is Correct.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 8:07 pm to MastrShake
Posted on 10/31/16 at 8:07 pm to MastrShake
quote:
It actually calls into question whether they were better without him.
are you serious with this shite?
Holy fricking shite man.
You first make the argument that a positive part of Orgeron's resume includes them beating what you define to be a good Fresno team. Then it turns out you were wrong and Orgeron had no part in that victory.
Do you see where other people are coming from? If you argue part of the improvement he demonstrated was beating Fresno - then them "improving" after he quit the team makes exactly that argument. I'm not defining anything new here. I left that Fresno game out of the discussion until you tried to define it into a positive for him.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 8:09 pm
1
Posted on 10/31/16 at 8:18 pm to molsusports
he took over an unranked team that was in freefall and held the season together, and beat number #5, yet youre gonna suggest USC was better off without him.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 8:29 pm to MastrShake
I didn't suggest that originally. I only pointed out your argument - that him leading USC to a win over Fresno State - flipped on its head when it turns out he was gone.
While Orgeron was head coach at USC they lost two of the three games they played against good opponents. You can not honestly argue they (USC) were a bad team because they turned around and beat a good team in Fresno State after he left.
That's his resume. He's not a terrible person. He's not John L Smith in the sense that he's at least a great recruiter and a good D line coach. But he has very little on his resume to make you think he builds programs, provides an elevation to coaching, or provides an elevation to performance.
Look, you never know when you hire a new coach. Guys with mediocre to good resumes sometimes turn out to be good. But betting on a long shot is betting on a long shot. If you give people a choice between coaches with better histories of success compared to coaches with a suspect history? You are a fool to pick the person with less evidence of excellence.
While Orgeron was head coach at USC they lost two of the three games they played against good opponents. You can not honestly argue they (USC) were a bad team because they turned around and beat a good team in Fresno State after he left.
That's his resume. He's not a terrible person. He's not John L Smith in the sense that he's at least a great recruiter and a good D line coach. But he has very little on his resume to make you think he builds programs, provides an elevation to coaching, or provides an elevation to performance.
Look, you never know when you hire a new coach. Guys with mediocre to good resumes sometimes turn out to be good. But betting on a long shot is betting on a long shot. If you give people a choice between coaches with better histories of success compared to coaches with a suspect history? You are a fool to pick the person with less evidence of excellence.
Posted on 11/1/16 at 9:42 am to MastrShake
quote:
you cant quit a job that someone doesnt give you.
Ed Orgeron resigns; will not coach bowl
quote:
stop trying to phrase everything to put Orgeron in the worst possible light
Sorry if speaking the truth offends you
This post was edited on 11/1/16 at 9:45 am
Posted on 11/1/16 at 9:56 am to MastrShake
quote:
so you dismiss LSU beating Ole Miss worse than anyone has all year
They are a fricking 5 loss team and we beat them worse than everyone else...yay!
quote:
yet the way Helton beat Fresno State was eye-opening?
They finished the season 11-2 and were in the top 25 and USC without Orgeron beat them by 25
The teams that Orgeron beat while being the Interim HC had a combined record of 36-40..The teams he lost to 19-7. He beat Stanford and a bunch of scrubs
The combined record of the teams he has beaten so far this season for LSU....10-14
This post was edited on 11/1/16 at 10:00 am
Posted on 11/1/16 at 10:33 am to dos crystal
quote:
1)Arguably the best secondary coach and recruiter in the country in Raymond. (DBU)
are you high? How in the hell is Raymond even remotely close to being an elite, let along "best Secondary" coach in the country? Did you see the DB's play last year? What was so great vs say under Cooper.
quote:
3)Arguably one of the best play callers and qb coaches in America in Kiffin.
not happening, why would he make a lateral move like? It's not like Bama can't match any offer. Good chance he gets a look as a HC at some 2nd tier P5 schools.
quote:
4)Arguably one of the best defensive coordinators/lb coaches in the country in Aranda
the only truth in this silly post. How long y ou think he stays as DC here? 1-2 years tops before getting a HC look.
Posted on 11/1/16 at 11:14 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
How in the hell is Raymond even remotely close to being an elite, let along "best Secondary" coach in the country?
Well, lsu's pass defense efficiency was so poor they finished top 20 in the nation starting two freshman and a sophomore.
2016 Saban just stated that lsu will have the best secondary they will face all year. (he tried to hire Raymond last year too.)
quote:
What was so great vs say under Cooper
Cooper is at Florida International. I didn't realize Florida International had the best db coach, man, they must be paying him well.
quote:
Good chance he gets a look as a HC at some 2nd tier P5 schools.
Ok, kiffin, who's failed TWICE as a h.c. is ready for h.c. gig but Ogeron isn't? Ogeron failing once and having two successful Interim h.c. gigs, which his team performed better under him than KIFFIN, isn't worthy but Kiffin is. perfect logic. I find this logic flawed.
only truth in this silly post. How long y ou think he stays as DC here? 1-2 years tops before getting a HC look.
So what if he is? you think lsu can't get another quality d.c.? how the hell you think they got Aranda?
Should I go on with Pelini, Chavis, etc? 
Posted on 11/1/16 at 11:20 am to dos crystal
quote:
You continue to pay and get the top coaches in their respective areas expertise.
What if...and I'm just spit balling here...we cut out the middle man and simply did this with the head coaching position?
You know...pay top dollar and go get the top coach you can get in their field...which in this case would be the field of proven head coaches?
Or, we can do this other thing you mentioned...
Posted on 11/1/16 at 11:26 am to dos crystal
quote:
I'd be surprised if O keeps Bradley Dale
If Special Teams keeps playing like it has over the past few weeks, I say keep Peveto he is too good at recruiting to let him go. As long as he doesn't have the influence on anything that he did with Miles I am good with keeping him because he is a BEAST in recruiting no matter how many good recruiters you have on staff there is always room for one more GOOD recruiter which BDP is and there is no denying that.
Posted on 11/1/16 at 11:29 am to GeauxTigerTM
That's genius and I like it
Posted on 11/1/16 at 11:41 am to dos crystal
quote:
Ok, kiffin, who's failed TWICE as a h.c. is ready for h.c. gig but Ogeron isn't?
Kiffen 35-21 as a Head Coach
Orgeron 19-27 (including his times as interim HC)
Kiffen has only failed once as a college coach, not twice and that failure was a 28-15 record at a USC under sanctions...Kiffen got fired because he a douche. He is 10 times the coach Orgeron is.
Posted on 11/1/16 at 12:50 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Cooper is at Florida International. I didn't realize Florida International had the best db coach, man, they must be paying him well.
Are really this much of a douche in real life or just on here? But I guess if we are going to ignore Orgeron's terrible record at Ole Miss, we can ignore what Cooper did at LSU and South Carolina, cause you know it is perfectly reasonable to expect Florida International to have the EXACT SAME level of talent as South Carolina, let alone LSU.
DBU didn't start with Raymond and won;t end when he leaves. He's grossly overrated on here because he is currently the guy and an LSU alum.
quote:
Ok, kiffin, who's failed TWICE as a h.c. is ready for h.c. gig but Ogeron isn't
I'm assuming you are counting the Raiders stint, which i don;t because the Raiders are morons. In his 2nd year at USC he had as many wins as O had in 3 years at OM and he has an overall winning record in college and zero losing seasons. He's also been extremely successful as an OC since being fired, O has never been a coordinator.
Howevah I AM NOT saying Kiffin should be HC at a program like LSU. I specifically said a 2nd tier P5 school (an Arizona or Illinois type job at best). And I'm predicting more that advocating anyhow. So, if someone like Purdue wnats to hire Ed O, then go for it. The best jobs he's been rumored for are things like ULL. Sure he's "ready" for that, but not a top 5-10 job like LSU.
This post was edited on 11/1/16 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 11/1/16 at 1:33 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
cause you know it is perfectly reasonable to expect Florida International to have the EXACT SAME level of talent as South Carolina, let alone LSU.
My point, if he's the best db coach in the land, why is he at florida International? You would think the could get a gig at any top flight University.
Both are available this year. Let see where Raymond winds up vs Cooper.
This will be college h.c's making this decision. not me, not you. I got my money on Raymond landing a bigger gig, with more money than Coop. What say you? want the bet?
We can call it the douche bowl, I leave this sight if I lose and you leave if you lose. how about it, douche?
assuming you are counting the Raiders stint, which i don;t because the Raiders are morons.
By the way, the Raiders are currently 6-2 and a playoff contender. Del Rio isn't having a problem.
I don't care what Kiffin did in his second year. In 2013 Kiffin and Ogeron BOTH coached the same team with the same players. Who had the better record? That is apples to apples son.
Posted on 11/1/16 at 1:37 pm to The Godfather
quote:so Tennessee under Kiffen was a resounding success?
Kiffen has only failed once as a college coach, not twice
Posted on 11/1/16 at 2:27 pm to dos crystal
quote:
My point, if he's the best db coach in the land, why is he at florida International? You would think the could get a gig at any top flight University.
to be clear, i wasn't saying he was the best DB coach in the land and frankly i could not care less about stupid rankings like that. But merely that he did an outstanding job at LSU, a better job imo than what I've seen from Raymond. As far as recruiting, what, exactly has Raymond done that's so special and wasn't done by others recently at LSU? I see nothing in Raymond to say he's a must keep, let alone "the best DB coach in the land". It is just familiarity bias.
quote:
By the way, the Raiders are currently 6-2 and a playoff contender. Del Rio isn't having a problem.
quote:
I don't care what Kiffin did in his second year. In 2013 Kiffin and Ogeron BOTH coached the same team with the same players. Who had the better record? That is apples to apples son.
actually its not apples to apples, it's called cherry picking. The Raiders once fired Mike Shananan after a similar tenure as Kiffin. Was that a "brilliant" move? The also chased off Jon Gruden who proceeded to curb stomp the team he built for them in the SB with Tampa Bay. The current team is off to a good start and if they win 3 more games will have their first winning seasons since 2002
the guy who was the owner when Kiffin was hired and fired is now deceased. That is not a coincidence BTW. I could also give examples of Raiders draft picks over the years. Also not a coincidence that they have been much better lately.
As far as your USC "mic drop". That doesn't change the fact that Kiffin had a 10-2 season there or that O was 10-whatever at Ole Miss in 3 years. I realize you HATE Kiffin which is perfectly fine and understandable. But that doesn't entitle you to distort his record. I'm not in any way advocating for him and certainly not for the LSU job. But facts are facts. And he's been a much more successful Head coach than Ed Orgeron to this point and he will get other opportunities where as if not for being the IHC, Ed O wouldn't even be discussed for a job like LSU.
This post was edited on 11/1/16 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 11/1/16 at 2:29 pm to drexyl
quote:
so Tennessee under Kiffen was a resounding success?
It certainly wasn't a failure, it was a winning record in a complete season, something Coach O has never had. He took over a Tennessee team that was 5-7 the year before and went 7-6 (two of the losses came to #1 teams). He wasn't fired, UT fans were ecstatic with the direction of the program, then he bolted for USC. I never said he was a resounding success, those are your words.
Posted on 11/1/16 at 2:30 pm to drexyl
quote:
Kiffen has only failed once as a college coach, not twice
so Tennessee under Kiffen was a resounding success?
he left after one year and they were pissed off about him leaving. So it was inconclusive perhaps, but not a failure.
This post was edited on 11/1/16 at 2:30 pm
Posted on 11/1/16 at 2:33 pm to The Godfather
quote:his entire first recruiting class was completely decimated by arrests and academics. his heralded recruiting class effectively was not there 2 years later. it's as if they gave themselves the death penalty for one year. he screwed Tennessee royally. Ask any Volunteer how kiffen left the program and whether or not they think it was a success or a failure.
It certainly wasn't a failure, it was a winning record in a complete season,
Posted on 11/1/16 at 2:39 pm to drexyl
quote:
his entire first recruiting class was completely decimated by arrests and academics. his heralded recruiting class effectively was not there 2 years later. it's as if they gave themselves the death penalty for one year
And who was the recruiting coordinator for that team?
hint....It was Ed Orgeron
Posted on 11/1/16 at 2:39 pm to sicboy
quote:Yeah, an arguement can be made that he's the best DB coach at recruiting. I don't know if i'd consider him to be an elite Db coach as far as coaching.
You sure about that?
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