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Message
re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 4/5/18 at 12:08 pm to CottonWasKing
Posted on 4/5/18 at 12:08 pm to CottonWasKing
TD Book Board Poll:
Who was the Alchemist - aka Jaquen H'ghar, aka Pate the Pig Boy - in AFFC Prologue?
We've already agreed that the Alchemist is a Faceless Man. So the question becomes: Who was the Alchemist before he became a Faceless Man?
For example, let's assume that Arya becomes a Faceless Man. The answer to who is Arya would be that she was a Stark, or a Lady of Winterfell, or a Princess of the North, or a hated enemy of the Lannisters, etc. These identities explain her motivations as an assassin.
Refresher:
Which matches exactly with Jaquen's description in ACOK.
Pate dies in AFFC Prologue, then shows up in the last chapter, presumably as Jaquen in his Pate disguise.
A look at the clues and options for The Alchemist's past self:
(Another) Lost Targaryen?:
The entire Prologue chapter has one overriding theme - Dragons.
“Dragons” is not only the first word of the Prologue, it’s all they talk about. Even Pate obsession with Rosey involves a "dragon".
Option 1 - Could the Alchemist be member of House Targaryen?
Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon:
The Golden Company is a group of mercenaries with ties to House Blackfyre and uses the words ""Beneath the gold, the bitter steel".
Option 2: Could the Alchemist be a member of House Blackfyre?
Speaking of Iron and Gold:
Option 3: Could the Alchemist be an agent of the Iron Bank?
Alleras the Sphinx is Sarella of Dorne:
Option 4: Could the Alchemist be a member of House Dorne?
The Alchemist could just be "No One" of importance:
Option 5: The Alchemist is The Stranger.
Who was the Alchemist - aka Jaquen H'ghar, aka Pate the Pig Boy - in AFFC Prologue?
We've already agreed that the Alchemist is a Faceless Man. So the question becomes: Who was the Alchemist before he became a Faceless Man?
For example, let's assume that Arya becomes a Faceless Man. The answer to who is Arya would be that she was a Stark, or a Lady of Winterfell, or a Princess of the North, or a hated enemy of the Lannisters, etc. These identities explain her motivations as an assassin.
Refresher:
quote:
A young man’s face, ordinary, with full cheeks and the shadow of a beard. A scar showed faintly on his right cheek. He had a hooked nose, and a mat of dense black hair that curled tightly around his ears. - Prologue, AFFC
Which matches exactly with Jaquen's description in ACOK.
Pate dies in AFFC Prologue, then shows up in the last chapter, presumably as Jaquen in his Pate disguise.
quote:
The novice in the room the whole time shows Sam to his quarters, finally divulging his name, "I'm Pate, like the pig boy."
A look at the clues and options for The Alchemist's past self:
(Another) Lost Targaryen?:
The entire Prologue chapter has one overriding theme - Dragons.
quote:
“Dragons,” said Mollander. He snatched a withered apple off the ground and tossed it hand to hand. “Throw the apple,” urged Alleras the Sphinx.
“Dragons” is not only the first word of the Prologue, it’s all they talk about. Even Pate obsession with Rosey involves a "dragon".
quote:
Pate: “I want my dragon.”
Alchemist: “To be sure.” The coin appeared.
Option 1 - Could the Alchemist be member of House Targaryen?
Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon:
quote:
“Who are you?” Pate had demanded of him, and the man had replied, “An alchemist. I can change iron into gold.”
The Golden Company is a group of mercenaries with ties to House Blackfyre and uses the words ""Beneath the gold, the bitter steel".
Option 2: Could the Alchemist be a member of House Blackfyre?
Speaking of Iron and Gold:
quote:
It almost sounded as if the nightingale were trilling gold for iron, gold for iron, gold for iron. Which was passing strange, because that was what the stranger had said..
Option 3: Could the Alchemist be an agent of the Iron Bank?
Alleras the Sphinx is Sarella of Dorne:
quote:
The Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler. - Maester Amon
Option 4: Could the Alchemist be a member of House Dorne?
The Alchemist could just be "No One" of importance:
quote:
Pate: “I do not know you.”
Alchemist: “Nor I you.”
Pate: “Who are you?”
Alchemist: “A stranger. No one. Truly.”
Option 5: The Alchemist is The Stranger.
2
Posted on 4/5/18 at 12:11 pm to jrodLSUke
TD Book Board Poll: Who WAS the Alchemist?
Option 1: A member of House Targaryen?
Option 2: A member of House Blackfyre?
Option 3: An agent of the Iron Bank?
Option 4: A member of House Dorne?
Option 5: The Stranger?
Option 1: A member of House Targaryen?
Option 2: A member of House Blackfyre?
Option 3: An agent of the Iron Bank?
Option 4: A member of House Dorne?
Option 5: The Stranger?
Posted on 4/5/18 at 12:12 pm to jrodLSUke
Sad that I had to google to remind myself who the Alchemist is. 
But I think the actual identity of the Alchemist is irrelevant. He is No One.
But I think the actual identity of the Alchemist is irrelevant. He is No One.
quote:
Option 5: The Stranger?
This post was edited on 4/5/18 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 4/9/18 at 11:52 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
Option 4: A member of House Dorne?
House Dorne?
Posted on 4/9/18 at 1:21 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
But I think the actual identity of the Alchemist is irrelevant. He is No One.
He is trying to steal the book Death of Dragons.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 7:13 pm to Esquire
quote:
He is trying to steal the book Death of Dragons.
Well, sure, but I think that's just a goal of the Faceless Men in general. They are no fans of the Valyrians.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:47 am to Ash Williams
quote:
Its been almost 5 years since I first posted in this thread
Since then, I've had 2 kids and moved three times
still no 6th book
I'm looking at possibly going through the entire life span of a dog and a marriage in that time, graduating undergrad and law school, and still no book 6.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:49 am to tigercross
quote:
Don't get me wrong, the re-read was outstanding. I strongly recommend everyone do the Boiled Leather combination read of Feast/Dance
Agreed, this really improved my re-read dramatically.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 1:12 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:
House Dorne?
Correction: House Martell.
There are many links between the Alchemist and The Sphinx, and we know that the Sphinx is Sarella Sand, Oberyn Martell's bastard daughter. Amon Targaryen tells us "The Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler."
In the last Sam Chapter, we find the Alchemist (as Pate), Sarella (as The Sphinx), and Maester Marwin (the Mage) all working together. Presumably looking for a book, The Death of Dragons.
We also know that Pate stole Maester Walgrave's key. Then we find this same trio working together in Walgrave's rookery. So it could be possible that the Alchemist has personal ties to Dorne, through Sarella.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 1:18 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
But I think the actual identity of the Alchemist is irrelevant. He is No One.
quote:
Option 5: The Stranger?
I don't think the Alchemist is literally The Stranger. He is working for Marwyn and brings him Walgrave's key. The Stranger wouldn't run someone else's errands. Certainly he's a Faceless Man, but I think his identity will be a significant reveal.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 2:40 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
I don't think the Alchemist is literally The Stranger. He is working for Marwyn and brings him Walgrave's key. The Stranger wouldn't run someone else's errands. Certainly he's a Faceless Man, but I think his identity will be a significant reveal.
Honestly, I don't think really any of the Faceless Men are all that different from one another, and it is why Arya will never officially become one of them. I think they're all following the same plan, and it has to do with dragons.
This is piggybacking a bit off of Alt Shift X's video from about a month ago, but I now firmly believe that Euron is the herald of the Three Eyed Crow and is preparing Westeros south of the Wall for ripe invasion of the Others. I believe when Euron was child he was visited by the Three Eyed Crow when he was in a sickly state (half of Euron's brothers were sickly and died so it makes sense), but he like Bran flew and didn't die. He's had a psychic connection with him ever since and has been doing his bidding. Here's the quote that makes me think it:
quote:
Euron: When I was a boy, I dreamt that I could fly, he announces. When I woke, I couldn't... or so the maester said. But what if he lied?
Victarion: What do you mean?
Euron: Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower? No man ever truly knows what he can do unless he dares to leap.
Victarion: There is the window. Leap. What do you want?
Euron: The world.
The Three Eyed Crow knows through the Weirwoods of Dany's dragons coming, so he instructed Euron to go to Valyria to get weaponry that can be used to fight Dany's dragons, namely the horn and a dragon egg, which he did and survived using dark sorcery. He also raided everywhere in the East seeking out magic wielders and sorcerers that could empower him. To ensure his brother's death, he sold the Faceless Men a dragon egg as payment. I think the Alchemist is there for knowledge on dragons and how to hatch the egg that Euron sold him, but claimed to have tossed overboard. I really think it's that simple why the Alchemist is there.
Euron knows this and wants that information as well, which is why he'll attack Oldtown, and I think successfully get the information he's after. By the ends of Winds of Winter, I think Euron will have bounded Viserion to his will, but not get the other two dragons. I think he will directly fight on the side of the Others in the final battle, being taken out by Asha at the end.
And there are many more subtle connections than just "Crow's Eye" and "Three Eyed Crow". Euron is heavily associated with the color blue, from his blue lips to his sky blue eyes, a color highly associated with the Others. Euron is also an exceptional nihilist who just wants to watch the world burn around him and seems to not give a single crap about waking up the next day. He's obsessed with visions and living simply for the day.
I think Euron "knows" the Others will win, but he's going to have a damn fun time taking the living down and ruling whatever remaining world they leave behind. He may even assist them going to Essos if they take over Westeros. I think this makes sense in the overall story, when I've in the past been always confused where Euron makes any sense in this outside of giving Dany ships.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:24 pm to OMLandshark
God damn, if the last page of this thread didn't suck me right back into the fun of this series. I used to enjoy this thread so much when I wasn't so jaded about the delay of the next book.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:51 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I think Euron will have bounded Viserion to his will, but not get the other two dragons.
Euron using Viserion to destroy the Wall is 1000x better than what happened in Season 7.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:06 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
God damn, if the last page of this thread didn't suck me right back into the fun of this series. I used to enjoy this thread so much when I wasn't so jaded about the delay of the next book.
What is dead may never die.
Posted on 4/11/18 at 2:57 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 4/11/18 at 4:29 pm to OMLandshark
What altshiftx video were you referencing in your Euron post?
Posted on 4/11/18 at 6:48 pm to Esquire
quote:
What altshiftx video were you referencing in your Euron post?
This one: Bloodraven
Alt-Shift is kind of giving Bloodraven a bit too much benefit of the doubt for me. There is something horribly, horribly wrong about him and his abode, and I don't think it's a coincidence the Others began to rise again around the time he didn't return to the Wall. I do think in the books he is evil.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 8:31 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 4/12/18 at 9:16 am to OMLandshark
quote:
There is something horribly, horribly wrong about him and his abode, and I don't think it's a coincidence the Others began to rise again around the time he didn't return to the Wall. I do think in the books he is evil.
Bloodraven is evil as frick. Im also of the firm opinion, which ive stated in here many times over the years, that he is attempting to turn Bran as well.
Bloodraven is old and appears to have failing health. He needs an heir. That heir is Bran.
The first Night King was a Brandon Stark. The next one will be too.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 6:20 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
The first Night King was a Brandon Stark. The next one will be too.
I still think Stannis becomes the new Night’s King the books. Too much foreshadowing and prophesy surrounding Stannis for him to go down in the anticlimactic way he did in the show. Stannis will be in the end game... well he would be if that fat turd would pick up a keyboard for any other reason than ordering Dominos.
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