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re: You're starting to get a look at mark of the beast stuff
Posted on 10/14/21 at 11:51 am to Wolfhound45
Posted on 10/14/21 at 11:51 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Sorry, but you do not understand the temporal versus the eternal wrath of God. If you applied your principle then none of the Apostles would have been martyred.
Sorry but, are you saying the apostles were martyred because of the wrath of God?
quote:
We are too focused on a Westernized version of the Gospel that does not take into account the importance of the kingdom of Christ during His millennial reign.
No offense but I want to ask you an honest question, what writer are you reading?
And yes, I'm probably much more qualified that you Wolf to understand the difference in the eternal and temporal wrath. Simply put, the eternal wrath is condemnation to the Lake of Fire. Temporal is the Seventh Seal, etc.
1
Posted on 10/14/21 at 12:30 pm to BayBengal9
I have a hunch you'll be subject to the tribulation. But at least you will witness the rapture and be able to explain it to the other godless heathens with you.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 12:36 pm to scottfruget
quote:
Can we, the great unvaxxed, create a shadow economy with our own form of money?
Peer to peer lending with cryptocurrency
Posted on 10/14/21 at 12:41 pm to Bayoubred
quote:I am saying they were martyred because they are subject to persecution. And we will endure persecution during the Tribulation. But we are not going to be eternally separated from God (e.g. eternal wrath).
Sorry but, are you saying the apostles were martyred because of the wrath of God?
quote:It is from my own study of the Word of God. A simple harmonizing of the Scriptures and understanding them in a historical perspective.
No offense but I want to ask you an honest question, what writer are you reading?
quote:Congratulations.
And yes, I'm probably much more qualified that you Wolf to understand the difference in the eternal and temporal wrath.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 1:22 pm to Dawgirl
quote:
With respect I disagree.
I respectfully disagree with, not on the fact of a rapture of God's people, but the timing of that rapture. Jesus does specifically state the timing of the rapture in Mark 13:24-27 & Mat 24:29-31.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
The chapters in Matthew states basically the same thing.
Paul also clearly notes that he is referring to the last trumpet he is referring to in 1 Cor 15:52 which states: "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
The end time trumpets are then talked about in the 8th, 9th and 10th chapters of Revelation, and since the seventh angel hold the final trumpet, there clearly is a lot of God's wrath that has already been poured out by that point. The one caveat to that is as it is stated in Rev 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads." So that tells me that once God starts pouring out his wrath on the earth, the church will largely be spared from it.
Keep in mind that the first part (maybe half) of the tribulation is brought about by the beasts/antichrist, not God. And God's people will suffer at the hands of the antichrist, just like Christian's have suffered at the hands of evil/Satan since the beginning of time. God doesn't start pouring out his wrath until after the beasts/antichrist have implemented their kingdom/reign.
At least that is what I've gathered through my studies.
I do not believe this vaccine mandate is the mark of the beast, but I do believe it is the trying of God's people to see how willing they are to bend to these types of things that affect their ability to earn money and whatnot. God's people were never told that we wouldn't be tried and suffer tribulations in this world. It is a key tenet throughout the bible.
This post was edited on 10/14/21 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 10/14/21 at 1:52 pm to Bamatab
quote:The common response for those who are pre-tribulation is that the Olivet discourse is for the nation of Israel. Hence, everything that Jesus outlines in these passages is solely what they will experience through the Tribulation period.
Bamatab
I do not agree with this viewpoint on the Olivet discourse. I see it as one, harmonious account from this particular passage through Revelation 19.
My focus is not on the marriage supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:6-9) but rather on the kingdom of God (Matthew 4:17).
An emphasis on a very narrowly focused passage (which occurs just prior to the return of Christ) rather on the totality of the Scripture leads to (in my opinion) a pre-tribulation position.
Blue Letter Bible search (KJV) - kingdom of God
Blue Letter Bible search (KJV) - kingdom of Heaven
Blue Letter Bible search (KJV) - marriage supper
Posted on 10/14/21 at 1:56 pm to prplhze2000
6 letters in covids
6 letters in vacine
6 letters in libral
6 letters in vacine
6 letters in libral
Posted on 10/14/21 at 2:09 pm to BhamTigah
quote:
6 letters in libral
Posted on 10/14/21 at 2:13 pm to prplhze2000
I believe the rapture happens right between the opening of the seventh/last seal and before the seven bowls/vials which I think that makes me a mid-tribber. The timeline when comparing Daniel, Paul’s epistles, and revelation seem to line up that way. I don’t think misinterpreting the timelines of future prophecy is a damning thing, though. As long as you believe it, there is no need to fight against a brother for getting a little mixed up on the exact order.
Also, I don’t think there will be any explaining to do for those “left behind”. I think it will be a huge spectacle like when God descended upon mount sinai and everyone will know exactly what is going on with extreme joy or extreme regret.
Also, I don’t think there will be any explaining to do for those “left behind”. I think it will be a huge spectacle like when God descended upon mount sinai and everyone will know exactly what is going on with extreme joy or extreme regret.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 2:47 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
The common response for those who are pre-tribulation is that the Olivet discourse is for the nation of Israel.
Yeah, I don't consider the church and the nation of Israel as being separate. As far as I'm concerned there is now no difference between the two as discussed in:
Romans 2:28,29 - 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Gal 3:28,29 - 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Col 3:11 - Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
So I do not believe in the separation of God's elect.
quote:
but rather on the kingdom of God
Yeah, I see the Kingdom of God as basically triune in nature. The Kingdom of God that we experience here on earth in the here and now as laid out in some of the scriptures you linked (and especially in Rom 14:17), the eternal heaven portion of the Kingdom of God, and the physical kingdom that Christ will establish here on earth as laid out in the 20th chapter of Revelation. I definitely see the Kingdom of God and the marriage supper of the Lamb as not the same thing, but with the thought that the marriage supper is a part in the Kingdom of God.
quote:
An emphasis on a very narrowly focused passage (which occurs just prior to the return of Christ) rather on the totality of the Scripture leads to (in my opinion) a pre-tribulation position.
Yeah, from my studies so far I guess I'm more post-trib myself, but actually I think the rapture will take place before Satan is thrown in the bottomless pit, then the 1000 year reign will happen, and then Satan will be let loose to gather Gog & Magog for the finale. But I know a lot of people separate the tribulation and the final battle when Satan is let loose after the 1000 year reign.
But hey, in time we will all find out what will actually happen. I hope I am wrong, and there is a pre-trib. But I'm going to prepare my prayer life as if there is a possibility that I may have to live through some portion of it.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 3:03 pm to PickupAutist
quote:
I believe the rapture happens right between the opening of the seventh/last seal and before the seven bowls/vials which I think that makes me a mid-tribber.
I have always viewed the seals, trumpets, and vials as different descriptions of God's wrath but are happening in a similar timeframe. While each seal is opened in order, trumpet is sounded in order, and vial is poured out in order, those events are happening at around the same time. Maybe not at exactly the same time, but I think there is some overlap at when they occur. I also think that the last trumpet and the last vial are either descriptions of the same thing, or the last trumpet is sounded and the vial is immediately poured out.
But I've always focused on the trumpets since the last trumpet is referenced by Jesus (at least that is my belief) and Paul.
quote:
I don’t think misinterpreting the timelines of future prophecy is a damning thing, though. As long as you believe it, there is no need to fight against a brother for getting a little mixed up on the exact order.
I'm with you. We will know all things at some point, but that point in time is definitely not now. I would love to be wrong, and there is a pre-trib rapture. I just hope that if the rapture is mid-trib or post-trib that pre-trib believes don't lose hope or become overwhelmed by it. But in the end our eternal salvation is not incumbent on our interpretation of end time prophesies.
This post was edited on 10/14/21 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 10/14/21 at 3:25 pm to Bamatab
Your viewpoints and mine are (probably) one and the same. I did not start out as a believer in a post-tribulation "gathering of the elect" viewpoint. For nearly thirty years I was "orthodox" in my understanding of eschatology. It has taken years of prayerful study for me to (finally) arrive at a post-tribulation doctrinal position. And as I have stated many times over, I want the pre-tribulation position to be the correct one. But I do not believe (in a holistic sense) the Scripture supports that doctrine.
How can someone assert a pre-tribulation position when 2 Thessalonians 2:3 gives clear signs of when that day will come? And you cited a reference that is one that troubled me, the final trump of 1 Corinthians 15:52.
Sorry, the focus is on the coming kingdom of God/Heaven. If we establish that as the centerpiece of our eschatology then everything falls into place and you do not have to put caveats on troublesome passages (e.g. the Olivet discourse).
How can someone assert a pre-tribulation position when 2 Thessalonians 2:3 gives clear signs of when that day will come? And you cited a reference that is one that troubled me, the final trump of 1 Corinthians 15:52.
Sorry, the focus is on the coming kingdom of God/Heaven. If we establish that as the centerpiece of our eschatology then everything falls into place and you do not have to put caveats on troublesome passages (e.g. the Olivet discourse).
Posted on 10/14/21 at 3:29 pm to Bamatab
quote:This is of concern to me. Because I believe (and it is only my belief) that those who "believe" that they are among the elect of God will become discouraged when the pre-tribulation "rapture" does not occur in the manner they expected. I believe that they will be part of the "falling away first" that is spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
I just hope that if the rapture is mid-trib or post-trib that pre-trib believes don't lose hope or become overwhelmed by it.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 4:32 pm to prplhze2000
My mom and dad both got it early september. They were both vaxed in february. My dad was sick one night he tested positive at 9am and with two hours was at hospital and got antibodies. He was well the next day. My mom had it one day before getting tested and the next day after test she got antibodies and she was better the next day also. I think the treatment helped them maybe the vax some. But if was me they swear to get to the dr. fast and get the treatments and ask for it.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 4:36 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
What if there isn't a rapture?
What if we are already in “hell”?
I love the downvotes on religious threads.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 4:49 pm to scottfruget
quote:
Can we, the great unvaxxed, create a shadow economy with our own form of money?
Why are we not doing this already?
Posted on 10/14/21 at 4:50 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
Some want to fix it to where you can't buy, sell, or even travel without the vaccine passport or card. Or hold a job or license. Or go to school. We r getting a trial run in seeing how society would operate if there was indeed such a mark
Absolutely
Posted on 10/14/21 at 5:17 pm to Eli Goldfinger
There's a lot of ignorant shite in this thread.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 5:21 pm to Globetrotter747
quote:
ignorant shite in this thread.
And you made one more.
Posted on 10/14/21 at 5:33 pm to roadGator
quote:
And you made one more.
People have been waiting for millenia for the rapture, the antichrist, Jesus coming down from the clouds, etc.
It's all a bunch of bullshite.
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