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Will Ukraine expose incompetence of our defense contractors?

Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:44 am
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
58755 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:44 am
Erick Erickson applied the beauty of the free market and competition to our reluctance to license Patriot missile production to Ukraine. In short, our defense contractors are scared they will get exposed.

quote:

Ukraine is bombed every single day. Its capital, its factories, its military headquarters, all of it sits under Russian missiles, and its supplies are scarce. And this year, in the middle of all of that, Ukraine will build five million drones. Five million. That is more than all of NATO combined.

The United States, safe behind two oceans, will build fewer than a hundred thousand. We cannot build a Patriot missile fast enough to matter. We have burned through our surface-to-surface missiles fighting Iran, and we do not have the stockpile to go back if we have to. A nation being bombed can build. A nation at peace cannot. Something has gone very wrong here, and it is worth being honest about what it is.

There is an argument to license Ukraine to build its own Patriots, and according to The Atlantic, the hold-up has been Raytheon and Lockheed. Officially, they worry about intellectual property theft and technology transfer. Unofficially, as one Republican put it, their real fear is that the Ukrainians will find a way to improve the Patriot and then build it at scale, faster and cheaper than our own production lines can. Read that again. Our defense contractors are afraid that a country at war will embarrass them by building a better missile for less money. That is not a national security argument. That is protectionism.

The consolidation of the American defense industry was, at first, necessary. Our own government piled on the restrictions, the burdens, and the compliance costs until the small companies could not survive and had to merge. But now that they have merged, there are only a handful of them left, they move slowly, and they answer to no competitor. Our defense industry has quietly become a jobs program instead of a defense program. And the government that made it that way is the same government now proposing to fix it with more of the same.

We have watched this movie before. Look at Boeing. I like Boeing. The 777 is a marvel, one of the safest planes ever built. But Boeing let the bean counters beat the engineers. Everything became a cost control, and when the engineers said a change was a bad idea, the accountants overruled them, and then 737s started falling out of the sky. Boeing leaned on an export subsidy from the government because it did not want to compete with Airbus. And Airbus, innovating while Boeing was cost-cutting, even as Airbus is arguably subsidized too, ate its lunch. That is what protection does. It does not make you strong. It makes you comfortable, and then it makes you slow.

When the government sets out to protect an industry, costs go up, timelines stretch out, and innovation dies. That is not a theory anymore. It is the reason we cannot build a missile.

The stakes are not abstract. We were promised a deal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. There is no deal. Iran has every incentive to drag this out, and we do not have the missiles to go back to war if the president decides he must. You cannot deter an enemy with a defense industry that treats its own inventory like a trade secret to be rationed out.

License Ukraine. Hand them the technology and let them prove our contractors wrong. Let a nation being bombed every day shame a nation at peace into remembering how to build. Our defense industry has become sclerotic, and it is failing at the one job it exists to do. It is time to unleash the free market on the military industrial complex.

Five million drones, under fire, with the lights flickering in Ukraine and we will build a hundred thousand in perfect safety and call it a success. That is not a defense. That is a jobs program with a flag on it.

Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
105128 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:47 am to
quote:

Will Ukraine expose incompetence of our defense contractors?


No, because we have been buying $500 hammers for at least 70 years because of who gets the contracts.

It’s not what you make but who you blow to get the contracts.
Posted by idlewatcher
Planet Arium
Member since Jan 2012
98533 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:49 am to
quote:

s one Republican put it, their real fear is that the Ukrainians will find a way to improve the Patriot and then build it at scale, faster and cheaper than our own production lines can. Read that again. Our defense contractors are afraid that a country at war will embarrass them by building a better missile for less money. That is not a national security argument. That is protectionism.


Hard to disagree with this.

It will expose them for exorbitant overcharges and change orders to FedGov. Not to mention, they (UKR) will have the technology on hand to build it cheaper and more efficient so they already have tipped the scale without putting in a single penny.
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
24828 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:51 am to
Thankfully we have guys like Palmer Lucky now competing with the MIC greedy and corrupt bastards.
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
75944 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:56 am to
It is nothing that another $1.5 trillion won't fix.
Posted by mule74
Watersound Beach
Member since Nov 2004
12980 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:00 am to
quote:

No, because we have been buying $500 hammers for at least 70 years because of who gets the contracts.


People like to complain about welfare queens but the amount of money being sucked out of the productive economy via private sector/government graft makes that look like chump change.

We don’t need a $1.5T defense budget. We need a defense department that can pass an audit.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
105128 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:01 am to
quote:

We need a defense department that can pass an audit.


The Deep State can wait out 8 years of any administration.
Posted by jbgleason
Bailed out of BTR to God's Country
Member since Mar 2012
20361 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:08 am to
I am not disagreeing with a lot of what is in that article but is everyone here really advocating for handing some of our best Tech to the Ukranians?

Seriously?

The Tech Packs will be in the hands of every nation willing to pay some Ukranian a thousand dollars within a week. Terrible, terrible idea.
Posted by TheHarahanian
Actually not Harahan as of 6/2023
Member since May 2017
24313 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:17 am to

Life or death consequences mean you do things that people in a manufacturing facility in Omaha don’t do.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
20709 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Thankfully we have guys like Palmer Luckey now competing with the MIC greedy and corrupt bastards.


You guys should check out some of his interviews, and his company, Anduril, on the net, what a refreshing way to view military contracts, in exactly the manner the OP described.

He got a 22 billion contract for infantry helmets. The speakers are linked to your vision and amplify what you are watching, the sound of an enemy in the bush, and blocks out the surrounding sound.

Vision can shift from yours, to a platoon member on your flank with a better view, and if they walk behind a building it will link your vision overhead from a drone, sat, or aircraft. All automatically.

Mind boggling. He said one thing they did not anticipate was motion sickness when testing
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
20709 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:45 am to
The f-22 dodo bird, I mean raptor original cost about 60 million to final cost around 350 million. And the 184 delivered before the contract was finally cut were such pieces of garbage that they are constantly in for repairs.

Which means the air force is reluctant to even train pilots on a piece of garbage that likely wont be serviceable.

Parts from 47 states, 12 foreign nations and a 1000 subcontractors.....what could go wrong.

Lockheed Martin got paid, so they dont give a shat.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
20709 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:49 am to
When the budget was around 800billion the internal finance folks at the DOW said there was 100 billion in waste (which means it was 200 billion at least). And now we want 1.5 trillion, it is ridiculous.

The world is making drones, and china is chasing us in space. We are building the next gen fighter jet.

Its akin to the brits insisting on battleships when it was obvious aircraft carriers were the way forward.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
20709 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 9:54 am to
Thats always the plan. Oops our tech was stolen, time for new super duber tech program....for another 100 billion, make sure the press carries the story about how vulnerable we are since the chini took it.

Remember the hubub about super duper supersonic ballistic missiles. Ballistic missiles have been supersonic since the V2 rocket Van Braun invented over 70 years ago.

Yeah but these super duper hypersonic ballistic missiles are guided. So was the V2 rocket.


Posted by Swamp Angel
West Georgia Chicken Farm Territory
Member since Jul 2004
10465 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 10:02 am to
Erick is on point pretty frequently, but at the core, Erick likes the sound of his own voice (very much like Hannity).
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
24595 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 10:11 am to
quote:

Thankfully we have guys like Palmer Lucky now competing with the MIC greedy and corrupt bastards.


I dont mind greedy, I mind incompetent and corrupt particularly when it leaves our military exposed.

Its like the Iron Man movie where hes competing with the Sam Rockwell character (Hammer?) who cant get his stuff to work. You can make money, but you better build the best.

I dont think we build the best in the classes that will matter moving forward (drone/robotics/etc), I dont think we have what we need for a 2026 battlefield and I think we cant scale it currently even if we did.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
41621 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 10:15 am to
quote:

Ukraine will build five million drones. Five million. That is more than all of NATO combined.

The United States, safe behind two oceans, will build fewer than a hundred thousand.


Why the hell would we build 5 million drones when we’re not at war?

This may be the dumbest article I’ve ever read
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
105128 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 10:16 am to
quote:

Its like the Iron Man movie where hes competing with the Sam Rockwell character (Hammer?) who cant get his stuff to work. You can make money, but you better build the best.


*missile doesn’t work*

“Hammer tech, huh?”

“*sigh* Yeah…”
Posted by alphaandomega
Tuscaloosa-Here to Serve
Member since Aug 2012
17353 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 10:38 am to
quote:

No, because we have been buying $500 hammers for at least 70 years because of who gets the contracts.



Crap like that is why the DOD cant pass an audit.
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
13733 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 10:42 am to
quote:

Why the hell would we build 5 million drones when we’re not at war?

Wait till you find out we built 2000 F35s when we weren't at war.

What would really blow your mind is going to Norfolk or San Diego. Places are full of these ships we built when we weren't at war either.

War Department is funny that way. It wants to prepare for war even when we aren't at war.

I know. Crazy.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
58755 posts
Posted on 8/11/26 at 10:50 am to
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