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re: Will Texas Children’s Hospital kill this child as retribution for Paxton blocking them?

Posted on 6/6/26 at 5:57 pm to
Posted by Ailsa
Member since May 2020
11029 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 5:57 pm to
quote:


I'm sure this has already been mentioned in this thread, but can the parents not just sign their child out AMA to a waiting ambulance for transport to another hospital? Is she currently being kept alive by life support systems?


i'm not sure how it works but this is something that was posted today:
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quote:

Two-year-old near-drowning patient puts Texas's Right to Try law directly to the test; IMA calls on hospital to stop pressuring parents toward life-ending decision

FULL STATEMENT: WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Independent Medical Alliance (IMA), a national coalition representing more than 12,000 independent physicians, researchers, and clinicians, today issued an urgent statement demanding Texas Children's Hospital cease its pressure campaign against the parents of Annelise Camp, a two-year-old near-drowning patient currently fighting for her life, and honor the family's right to pursue every available avenue for their daughter's recovery.

Texas Children's Hospital (@TexasChildrens) has indicated it intends to pursue a brain death determination for Annelise, over the explicit objections of her parents, who are seeking access to alternative treatments and supportive care in accordance with the state's Right to Try law. The IMA is calling that effort premature, medically unsound given the patient's age and circumstance, and a direct violation of the principles that Texas's Right to Try legislation was designed to protect.

"Annelise must be given every opportunity to recover," said IMA Senior Fellow @DrKatLindley, Director of the IMA Fellowship Program. "Texas Children's Hospital needs to remember its mission: to treat and care for every patient. The medical literature is clear that young children who have experienced near-drowning events can and do make remarkable, even extraordinary recoveries, recoveries that would have been impossible if families had been forced into premature end-of-life decisions. These parents are not in denial. They are doing what every parent would do: fighting for their child's life. Texas Children's Hospital must stand down from this pressure campaign and work with this family, not against them."

The Science Is on the Family's Side
The medical case for giving Annelise time is grounded in well-documented neurological science. Young brains possess extraordinary neuroplasticity: the capacity to rewire, compensate, and restore functions once thought permanently lost, even following prolonged oxygen deprivation. There are many documented cases of toddlers and young children who have regained consciousness, relearned to walk and speak, and gone on to live full lives after near-drowning events and extended coma.

Any decision to foreclose the possibility of recovery, over a family's explicit objection, and in a patient population where the science supports waiting, is not a medical determination, but rather a policy determination, and exactly the kind of action that Texas's Right to Try law was designed to prevent.

"Families must have the right to give their child every chance to fight back and recover," continued Dr. Lindley. "That is precisely why Texas passed its Right to Try law, so that parents facing the most devastating moments of their lives are not also being pushed toward irreversible decisions by institutional timelines that may have nothing to do with their child's prognosis. Texas Children's Hospital has an opportunity right now to lead with compassion, to work alongside this family, and to demonstrate that patient-centered care is more than a mission statement. We are urging them, in the strongest possible terms, to take it."

Posted by CDawson
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2017
20600 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 6:09 pm to
Then why do they need help? Why aren’t they just transferring the kid to the other hospital?
Posted by Diamondawg
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
39134 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 6:34 pm to
I think this is totally misleading:

Correct cost estimates

What does happen is that transplantation involves very large medical costs. These costs can include:

Organ recovery and preservation.
Transportation of the organ.
Testing and matching.
Transplant surgery.
Hospitalization and follow-up care.

ChatGPT
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 6:48 pm to
quote:

You understand that you are a lone nitwit with your opinions on this matter don’t you.



He’s damn near the only person in this thread who knows what he’s talking about. What’s your medical background?
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 6:54 pm to
quote:

Then why do they need help? Why aren’t they just transferring the kid to the other hospital?

Which hospital has publicly (or privately for that matter) stated they are willing to accept this patient?
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
21332 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 7:12 pm to
quote:

Which hospital has publicly (or privately for that matter) stated they are willing to accept this patient?


Can a hospital refuse to "take" them? On what basis could a hospital do that?
Posted by AUIH1
Logan Martin Lake, Talladega, AL
Member since Oct 2012
585 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 7:31 pm to
Probably same as him. What I read on the interwebs.
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

Can a hospital refuse to "take" them? On what basis could a hospital do that?


Of course. You have to find an accepting physician at an accepting hospital.

The most common reason for hospital to hospital transfers is resource limitations/higher level of care required.

Let me tell you something about TCH…there is no higher level of pediatric ICU care in the nation, yet alone region.
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 7:33 pm to
quote:

Probably same as him. What I read on the interwebs.

So very much so not the same as him. You’ve taken care of a bunch of ICU patients in your day?
Posted by Ailsa
Member since May 2020
11029 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 7:37 pm to
quote:


Let me tell you something about TCH…there is no higher level of pediatric ICU care in the nation, yet alone region


Was that for all the transgender child mutilations that they performed?
Posted by AUIH1
Logan Martin Lake, Talladega, AL
Member since Oct 2012
585 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 7:40 pm to
No, has he? Doesn’t matter anyway; unless he is this particular child’s physician; he has no more info than the rest of us mere mortals.
Posted by riverdiver
Summerville SC
Member since May 2022
3077 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 8:11 pm to
quote:

What's the "rush" to determine if a patient is alive or not? That's really your question?


Yes, that’s my question.

Particularly since several patients over the last several years have been certified to transplant organs, and have woke up in the OR or prior to going to have organs removed.

One guy in particular in Kentucky was thrashing around during a heart cath to see if his heart was viable for donation, and it was ignored. He was in the OR to have organs removed when they cancelled it at the last minute due to signs of life. Apparently Kentucky as a whole has had 70+ questionable organ harvestings when the patient may not’ve been an appropriate candidate.
Posted by riverdiver
Summerville SC
Member since May 2022
3077 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 9:09 pm to
quote:

As someone with your experience would know, the next step in the process involves brain function testing. The Family is refusing that testing.


Well, that’s their right at this time. Here’s the issue, there have been several people over the last few years who’ve been somehow approved as a candidate for organ donation, and they woke up, sometimes in the OR on the verge of being harvested.

I’ve maintained several donor patients until they went to the OR, I’ve had certified brain dead patients with a swan and on pressors that had better vital signs than other patients in the ICU.

My wife worked for a couple of years for SCOPA, at the time the organ transplant company for the state of SC,

SCOPA has changed their name several times, an old co-worker of mine ran the organization for a few years. He stepped down because he wasn’t happy with the new pathway to donation, and had some personal/professional issues with donor approval.

The pressure to obtain organs is high, to the point the organ procurement agencies are getting obnoxious pressing families to donate.

In my area they’ve greatly widened the criteria to call them on consults, to the point they’re wanting to be automatically flagged when certain criteria are met. I assume all organ procurement agencies are doing the same. It’s sad, even on expired patients they’re hounding families to donate skin, bone, and eyes. It’s worse on potential brain death/cardiac death donors.

I’m guessing whoever the Texas organ procurement agency was automatically flagged by the criteria for a potential donor with this child, and the family was either tipped off by staff that they’d be called or the organ procurement agency jumped the gun and contacted them early.

Lots of information and likely misinformation swirling around, it’d be nice for the hospital to step on the brakes and clear the air.

Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

Was that for all the transgender child mutilations that they performed?

This response to my post makes zero sense. Not surprising, though.
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 9:18 pm to
quote:

No, has he?

Undoubtedly.

quote:

Doesn’t matter anyway

Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 9:20 pm to
quote:

Yes, that’s my question.

Well it’s a very dumb question.

“Hey medical team, stop trying to assess your patients neurological status bc we might not like what your tests reveal!”

Posted by riverdiver
Summerville SC
Member since May 2022
3077 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 10:03 pm to
quote:

Well it’s a very dumb question. “Hey medical team, stop trying to assess your patients neurological status bc we might not like what your tests reveal!”


There’s no need to rush brain death testing in this case.

Children in particular are resilient.

I’ve seen more than my fair share of patients who’ve coded for an hour or more have no meaningful neurological response, then in a few days bounce back.
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
12388 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 10:35 pm to
quote:

There’s no need to rush brain death testing in this case. Children in particular are resilient.

Do you understand what “brain death” means?
quote:

I’ve seen more than my fair share of patients who’ve coded for an hour or more have no meaningful neurological response, then in a few days bounce back.

I repeat my question above.
Posted by soonerinlOUisiana
South of I-10
Member since Aug 2012
2625 posts
Posted on 6/6/26 at 10:48 pm to
Why is it so important to Texas Children’s Hospital that the child’s parents NOT be permitted to obtain a second opinion? Or third, or fourth, etc.?
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
21332 posts
Posted on 6/7/26 at 12:01 am to
quote:

quote:
The UDDA requires the irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain including the brain stem.

That is false.

Idiot!


Some of you may be more familiar with the UDDA than I am, so maybe there's an updated version (?), but the one I could find online is linked below. It's a short document (only 8 pages including front matter).

In the Prefatory Note section, it states:

Under part (2), the entire brain must cease to function, irreversibly. The "entire brain" includes the brain stem, as well as the neocortex. The concept of "entire brain" distinguishes determination of death under this
Act from "neocortical death" or "persistent vegetative state." These are not deemed valid medical or legal bases for determining death.

Section 1 reads in its entirety as:

§ 1. [Determination of Death]. An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards.

From what I can tell, the claim made in the Dr. Klessig quote is accurate. NC_Tigah, you said her claim was false. How so?

Uniform Determination of Death Act (UDDA)

This post was edited on 6/7/26 at 1:21 am
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