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re: Why can every other first world country have healthcare for all?
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:29 pm to SiloamHog
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:29 pm to SiloamHog
quote:Are you under the impression that you can just walk into any hospital or clinic in europe and receive whatever care you want?
SiloamHog
Please educate yourself on the various systems in europe. They are quite different from one another.
the uk is completely govt operated- hospitals, docs, etc.
most of mainland europe has a system not unlike obamacare- private care, private insurance, but subsidized.
2
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:30 pm to SiloamHog
quote:
Mexico, who we have to build a wall against has socialized healthcare.
Bahaha.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:30 pm to SiloamHog
Because they have no idea what they are giving up- it's all they know. I know, or know of, several people diagnosed on Tuesday and having major surgery on Thursday. That doesn't exist in a govt system.
In Canada, even folks with a potential condition that will cause death in 3 mos have to wait 6 mos for the test. Know what they do? They cross the boarder and get treatment in the US.
In the UK or Germany, if a cancer cure comes out and it's $200K, they have a lottery to decide who lives and who dies. Cause that is not in the federal budget.
We already have a shortage of Doctors. That will become a major problem in a Govt system. Law of supply & demand, coupled with Federal budget constraints, will absolutely lead to denial of care. What's a 70 year old gonna do with a new knee??
Govt already covers over 50% of US healthcare. With that we have goofy fraud-ridden Medicare, the VA, etc. That's what the govt built.
Finally, they depend on us to be the world police. They don't fund a military that could deal with the old USSR or current China.
Profit margin for major insurance companies are 4%-5%. I just don't see how turning admin over the govt moves the needle.
In Canada, even folks with a potential condition that will cause death in 3 mos have to wait 6 mos for the test. Know what they do? They cross the boarder and get treatment in the US.
In the UK or Germany, if a cancer cure comes out and it's $200K, they have a lottery to decide who lives and who dies. Cause that is not in the federal budget.
We already have a shortage of Doctors. That will become a major problem in a Govt system. Law of supply & demand, coupled with Federal budget constraints, will absolutely lead to denial of care. What's a 70 year old gonna do with a new knee??
Govt already covers over 50% of US healthcare. With that we have goofy fraud-ridden Medicare, the VA, etc. That's what the govt built.
Finally, they depend on us to be the world police. They don't fund a military that could deal with the old USSR or current China.
Profit margin for major insurance companies are 4%-5%. I just don't see how turning admin over the govt moves the needle.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:30 pm to SiloamHog
quote:
What about The UK, Germany, France, or the entirety of the EU?
Small.
Small.
Small.
Each individual member of the eu pays for their own citizens, and all are small.
quote:
Hell, even Mexico, who we have to build a wall against has socialized healthcare.
So why do they come to the United States for treatment over stating in Mexico?
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:31 pm to Jimbeaux
So you're saying we should divert funding from the military industrial complex to healthcare for all?
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:31 pm to SiloamHog
UK- 66 million
France- 66 million
Germany- 82 million
USA- 329 million
Big difference there.
And as I said in my earlier post, their level of healthcare isn't as high as you think it is.
Those countries also have private hospitals where people pay straight cash to visit. If the public options are so great, why do thousands of those private hospitals continue to thrive in the UK?
France- 66 million
Germany- 82 million
USA- 329 million
Big difference there.
And as I said in my earlier post, their level of healthcare isn't as high as you think it is.
Those countries also have private hospitals where people pay straight cash to visit. If the public options are so great, why do thousands of those private hospitals continue to thrive in the UK?
This post was edited on 2/19/20 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:31 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
the uk is completely govt operated- hospitals, docs, etc.
most of mainland europe has a system not unlike obamacare- private care, private insurance, but subsidized.
Actually, you are partially correct either way: there is a massive 2 tier system in nearly all socialist medicine countries. There is a private system and a woefully inadequate socialized system.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:31 pm to Apollyon
quote:
Negative ghostrider, perhaps you refer to a "privilege"
I said nothing about rights or privileges.
Obviously any sort of viable healthcare for all type system wouldn't be feasible whatsoever without a wholesale restructuring of our entire federal government. Which is why I put that in my first post about all the other federal agencies that need to go away. And all other social programs.
It's pie in the sky shite. It won't ever happen with our government structured the way it currently is because it simply wouldn't be economically feasible. It would destroy the quality of care people receive.
However, I also believe that in say...20 years time this is going to be a moot question anyways. Healthcare is going to become dirt cheap eventually.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:32 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
But Obamacare bad
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:33 pm to WorkinDawg
quote:Great post.
Because they have no idea what they are giving up- it's all they know. I know, or know of, several people diagnosed on Tuesday and having major surgery on Thursday. That doesn't exist in a govt system.
In Canada, even folks with a potential condition that will cause death in 3 mos have to wait 6 mos for the test. Know what they do? They cross the boarder and get treatment in the US.
In the UK or Germany, if a cancer cure comes out and it's $200K, they have a lottery to decide who lives and who dies. Cause that is not in the federal budget.
We already have a shortage of Doctors. That will become a major problem in a Govt system. Law of supply & demand, coupled with Federal budget constraints, will absolutely lead to denial of care. What's a 70 year old gonna do with a new knee??
Govt already covers over 50% of US healthcare. With that we have goofy fraud-ridden Medicare, the VA, etc. That's what the govt built.
Finally, they depend on us to be the world police. They don't fund a military that could deal with the old USSR or current China.
Profit margin for major insurance companies are 4%-5%. I just don't see how turning admin over the govt moves the needle.
the people who advocate for socialized medicine here in the states tend to be extremely ignorant of how healthcare actually works in europe. Care is regularly denied.
Cost is contained in europe by resticting types and methods of care.
for example, in the uk, pregnancy costs are 40% of what they are in America. Why?
Because the NHS tightly regulates who visits OBGYNs for checkups. Only in emergencies can you see a OBGYH.
Pregnant women in the uk instead use midwives.
So the reason costs are lower there is because you aren't getting as many fancy visits or fancy care.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:34 pm to SiloamHog
quote:
Hell, even Mexico, who we have to build a wall against has socialized healthcare.
Must be some good stuff, too. With all the Americans crashing the border, and dying in the desert to get to Mexic.... wait.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:34 pm to BoarEd
You said your healthcare is paid for forever, I assumed tricare/VA.
You have no right to care, only a privilege. You know this, yes?
You have no right to care, only a privilege. You know this, yes?
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:34 pm to SiloamHog
It is bad.
“Save you 2000 bucks”
“Like your plan keep your plan”
“Keep your doctor”
“Save you 2000 bucks”
“Like your plan keep your plan”
“Keep your doctor”
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:34 pm to SiloamHog
quote:
You're paying for those others with the same insurance company as you. Right? Why not pay for your fellow Americans insurance
Wait. The others with my insurance aren't American?
quote:
at no increase to you?
Please cite any version of universal coverage currently proposed in the US that will not increase my cost. I currently pay $300/m with a $6,000 max out of pocket cost. For the last 5 years, my total out of pocket cost is approximately $100. I keep $6,000 in cash for my 'rainy day' fund if I need to cover my max out of pocket for any reason.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:35 pm to SiloamHog
Medicare for all has nothing to do with increasing your quality or access to healthcare.
It has everything to do with the government trying to seize power.
Just talk to someone in England that is forced to use NHS.
It has everything to do with the government trying to seize power.
Just talk to someone in England that is forced to use NHS.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:36 pm to Apollyon
quote:
You said your healthcare is paid for forever, I assumed tricare/VA.
You have no right to care, only a privilege. You know this, yes?
Oh. Well yeah. I'm a disabled vet. I've already paid my debt in full.
Call it a right. Call it a privilege. Call it whatever. Makes no difference to me.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:36 pm to Rebel
They will never understand this point.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:36 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Please cite any version of universal coverage currently proposed in the US that will not increase my cost. I currently pay $300/m with a $6,000 max out of pocket cost. For the last 5 years, my total out of pocket cost is approximately $100. I keep $6,000 in cash for my 'rainy day' fund if I need to cover my max out of pocket for any reason.
He won't answer this.
the fact of the matter is that americans who choose to have high deductible plans because they don't use much care are frickED by a single payer system. They will almost certainly be net losers under single payer.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:37 pm to SiloamHog
I’m going to give you an answer so honest, it’ll hurt.
I don’t want universal healthcare for the simple fact that our govt is inept and corrupt. A govt that can’t educate, over incarcerates, bombs at Will, and steals our money will never successfully heal us.
I would LOVE for there to be universal healthcare. Health insurance sucks, and I say this as an insurance agent. But, the fed govt has proven to be awful in every sense of the word, so they can gtfo.
I don’t want universal healthcare for the simple fact that our govt is inept and corrupt. A govt that can’t educate, over incarcerates, bombs at Will, and steals our money will never successfully heal us.
I would LOVE for there to be universal healthcare. Health insurance sucks, and I say this as an insurance agent. But, the fed govt has proven to be awful in every sense of the word, so they can gtfo.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:37 pm to SiloamHog
There's a girl that moved to my daughter's High School here in McKinney Texas from Germany. I spoke with her last week about politics etc and especially insurance coverage in her country and she said they take over 50% of her parents income to help cover things like healthcare Care.I sure in the hell don't want that here. They are so glad to be in America.
Trump 2020
Trump 2020
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