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re: What would you say to a Yazidi woman raped by ISIS who wanted an abortion?
Posted on 12/14/14 at 2:53 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 12/14/14 at 2:53 pm to FooManChoo
quote:So I take it you don't believe in medicine, war, capital punishment, border security, scientific discovery, etc.
I also believe that God's will would be done in such a scenario, since Satan cannot "win", and that God will take care of Satan in His own way. My job is to glorify God and obey Him, not take matters into my own hands
God will take care of it all. Right?
1
Posted on 12/14/14 at 2:55 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:The problem with this example is that it has turned into the fanciful to try to discuss my views on what actually happens any given day.
Your premise is not based on whether the child's father is spiritually human, or in the case of Satan, human at all.
That is the point.
The biologic equivalent would be impregnation after mating with a Chimpanzee.
It is my belief that human life has intrinsic value, therefore all efforts should be made to preserve that life, especially when such efforts do not endanger the life of the mother. Speculation about whether or not the child is the spawn of Satan from a movie scenario is unprofitable, IMO. But even if it were partially human (or fully human with some sort of evil spirit within), the life of the child should be guarded. That is my view.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 2:58 pm to OMLandshark
quote:I have noticed that you haven't made much of an attempt to offer anything but insults to this discussion. Do you have anything else?
The insane person has publically admitted that Keltic Tiger's sister having an abortion is as evil of an act as killing a 5 year old in cold blood at a pizza party. He's clearly insane and can't be reasoned with
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:00 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Of course I "believe" in those things. I made reference to this earlier with someone else, but what you're referring to is the distinction between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.
So I take it you don't believe in medicine, war, capital punishment, border security, scientific discovery, etc.
God will take care of it all. Right?
Like I said to that other person, if you want to start a topic about it, I'd be happy to participate and share my views if you are interested. Otherwise, I'd like to stick to the topic of abortion.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:01 pm to FooManChoo
Because you said that those two events are not only comparable, but equal in your mind. I will try and reason with reasonable people, but I refuse to do it with the insane.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:06 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Against the will of a fully human mother.
But even if it were partially human . . . the life of the child should be guarded.
quote:Yeah, that is kind of bizarre.
That is my view.
No need to even get into nonviable scenarios, partial molar pregnancies, etc.
The point has been made.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Regarding that distinction, your train of logic derailed in the partially-human post.
I made reference to this earlier with someone else, but what you're referring to is the distinction between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:17 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I would hope that she wouldn't, but I believe that all people are sinners and capable of sinning, even when they know what they are doing is wrong.
Sex of course being the king of sins.
Boy are you in for some terrible times as your daughter discovers how full of shite you are.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:20 pm to OMLandshark
quote:You don't appear to be interested in the truth or what I actually said or what I meant by it, but here is what I actually said:
Because you said that those two events are not only comparable, but equal in your mind. I will try and reason with reasonable people, but I refuse to do it with the insane.
"I think abortion is just as immoral as murdering a 5-year-old at a pizza party, but I certainly feel more sympathy for the rape victim than I do from the one who goes on some sort of cold-blooded spree. That isn't the point, though. The point is that I believe certain actions are immoral regardless of whether or not I understand or sympathize with those actions."
Later on, you said that I thought a doctor who performs abortions was equally bad as someone who shoots up a middle school. I misread the part where you referenced the doctor and thought you were referring to a woman, but here is what I said:
"While I believe all people are capable of the most evil acts, I don't believe a woman who aborts a child is on equal footing as the person who shoots up an elementary school. Both acts are evil in my mind, but the degree is certainly different."
I believe that it is immoral and evil to willfully kill an unborn child for any reason other than that the mother's life is in serious danger (meaning she will die otherwise). I believe it is immoral and evil for someone to shoot kids in a school or at a pizza party (or anywhere). I can sympathize with a woman who desires an abortion a lot more than someone who shoots up a school, but both actions are immoral. You can argue the degree of immorality in comparing the two, but my point throughout this thread has been that I believe abortion is immoral. Trying to play "gotcha" is not productive.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:20 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
See how I clarified? You used broad terms about the child being more important than the mother, but that's not what I believe. You have to be more specific about what, exactly, ranks higher in importance.
No, we get it.
You don't give one shite about the mental and emotional health of any woman who is suffering after a sexual attack.
Just the rape baby she is carrying.
Your daughter would be secondary as long as you can preserve the life of the product of the violent assault.
You're really are a evil person.
I seriously hope nothing ever happens to your kid.
Because as a father, someone your kid should be able to look to for support and love.
You will give her neither. Just produce that baby.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:22 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
The insane person has publically admitted that Keltic Tiger's sister having an abortion is as evil of an act as killing a 5 year old in cold blood at a pizza party. He's clearly insane and can't be reasoned with.
of that there is no doubt.
The sad thing is Keltic has told us about his sister before...and we got the exact same result from Team Jesus.
It's amazing the bubble these people exist in.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:23 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Yes, I believe the life of the child should be guarded against the will of the mother if her life is not in danger.
Against the will of a fully human mother.
quote:I'm still not exactly sure what your point was. I tried to explain that what I meant by "spiritual" was not about the spirit of the child, but my own beliefs. You brought up some bizarre what-if scenario based on a child being the spawn of Satan, which has nothing to do with what we were discussing previously.
Yeah, that is kind of bizarre.
No need to even get into nonviable scenarios, partial molar pregnancies, etc.
The point has been made.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:27 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I don't think it did, but perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough, which gives that impression. If you could elaborate how it "derailed", I'd appreciate it. I'm still not sure what point you were trying to prove.
Regarding that distinction, your train of logic derailed in the partially-human post.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:27 pm to FooManChoo
FooManChoo, my sister has not been thrown a "curveball, nor is she going through "such trials". To repeat, you & those who judge others based on their beliefs have no clue what the real world is like out there. You seek to trivialize what she has been going through for several yrs now & you have NO IDEA what you are talking about real life. She may well be a "sinner", but frick you & your judgemental arse for saying she is a sinner in your eyes for this abortion. You claim "many women come to love & care" for their rape babies, what facts do you have to back up your claim? I belong to several victims of rape groups around the country, my focus being on those who were impregnated as a result. And in talking to literally several hundred of such victims, I have found not one who even comes close to sharing this view. Roughly 20% said that they would have committed suicide rather than be forced to have their rapist's child. None wanted anything to do with having such a baby. None. But as I said, I have no problem with you having your own beliefs,whatever they may or may not be. Just quit trying to force your beliefs on others; quit judging others who do not share your beliefs. Just mind your own business for a change.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:29 pm to FooManChoo
Are we seriously debating the moral merit of aborting the antichrist? 
What a dangerous philosophy to live by if you actually applied this logic to every aspect of your life.
Of course, you obviously dont do that since you wouldnt have lived long enough to be sitting here talking with us if you did. It's still interesting that you have the audacity to claim such a philosophy even though it is selectively enforced.
quote:
My spiritual premise is not based on whether or not the child is the devil, which, as I said, is a ridiculous scenario to me, since I believe it is at odds with my spiritual beliefs. But even if it were not, I also believe that God's will would be done in such a scenario, since Satan cannot "win", and that God will take care of Satan in His own way. My job is to glorify God and obey Him, not take matters into my own hands based on fictional movie scenarios.
What a dangerous philosophy to live by if you actually applied this logic to every aspect of your life.
Of course, you obviously dont do that since you wouldnt have lived long enough to be sitting here talking with us if you did. It's still interesting that you have the audacity to claim such a philosophy even though it is selectively enforced.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:30 pm to asurob1
quote:A sin is a sin, but I'm not sure where I said what particular sin was "the king of sins". Are you just trolling?
Sex of course being the king of sins.
quote:Care to elaborate? She will know that I'm a sinner, too. Her goal in life should not be to please me, but to please God.
Boy are you in for some terrible times as your daughter discovers how full of shite you are
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:35 pm to FooManChoo
Typically, kids raised in homes like the one you describe rebel the hardest in their late teens and twenties. The "preacher's daughter" is an old cliche, but there is some truth to it.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:36 pm to FooManChoo
You better keep her at a Christian college and not let her go to a real college.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:38 pm to asurob1
quote:
You're really are a evil person.
Pretty much how I feel about him as well, and agree with you that he's no better Islamic extremists.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 3:40 pm to asurob1
quote:Not true at all. I just don't believe that abortion is the answer to all of her problems or the only way to "support" her. You are obviously stuck on abortion as the be-all and end-all of "support" for rape victims who become pregnant.
No, we get it.
You don't give one shite about the mental and emotional health of any woman who is suffering after a sexual attack.
quote:I'll say it again: I believe the life of the unborn child ranks higher in importance than everything but the life of the mother. That is not the same thing as "the rape baby is more important than the mother". You have to be more specific than that.
Just the rape baby she is carrying.
quote:You need to get more specific here. My daughter's life would definitely be my primary concern above all else, but if she were not in danger, the unborn child should still have a chance to live. I would do everything in my power to get my daughter the counseling and therapy she needed to deal with the tragic event that took place, as well as supporting her in giving the child up for adoption if she desired it. I would also support her in every way possible if she decided to raise the child.
Your daughter would be secondary as long as you can preserve the life of the product of the violent assault.
quote:By what standard do you judge me? There are rapists and murderers out there but somehow I'm evil for thinking that an unborn child should have a chance at life? Strange world we live in.
You're really are a evil person.
quote:Thank you for that. I hope nothing bad ever happens to her either, but as a father, she will be able to look to me for support and love regardless of what happens. I will give her real support, not fake sentiments by encouraging her to kill the life growing within her, as if that's all the "support" someone in that position needs. There's a lot more to it than that.
I seriously hope nothing ever happens to your kid.
Because as a father, someone your kid should be able to look to for support and love.
You will give her neither. Just produce that baby.
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