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Started By
Message
re: Virginia police officers threatened Army Lt. during stop (Body Cam footage included)
Posted on 4/11/21 at 9:54 am to coachcrisp
Posted on 4/11/21 at 9:54 am to coachcrisp
quote:Honestly, I wouldn't have shot the guy. I may have looked for defensive position or cover if I was truly concerned.
Can you honestly tell me what YOU would have done if you'd been in that cop's position?
I'm pretty sure there was plea bargain somewhere in all that, and again, Imo it is an excellent example of why people should immediately comply when stopped.
1
Posted on 4/11/21 at 9:55 am to oldskule
Good grief man.
You call 911 to tell them your going to a lit area to pull over.
You call 911 to tell them your going to a lit area to pull over.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 9:56 am to mmcgrath
quote:
The cop admitted he was wrong, was fired, and sentenced to prison. What does it take for you to admit this cop was wrong?
He shouldn't have. Making sudden movements like that is how cops get killed.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 9:57 am to coachcrisp
quote:Their first command, which they screamed and repeated, was to stick his hands out of the window. He complied. At that point they had plenty of opportunity to look inside the vehicle from bothe the driver and passenger side windows.
If you watched the first part of both videos, you noticed how the 2 cop cars stayed away from the truck while repeatedly telling the LT to "step out of the truck". His noncompliance set off all kinds of bells to those cops. It's certainly not beyond the pale for the guy to have a weapon on the front seat, and the only way to be even remotely safe would be for him to comply with their FIRST command.
Watch the other video on this page to see a quite different possible outcome.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:00 am to oldskule
quote:
These policemen acted in a professional manner. The driver did NOT cooperate and the entire fiasco is the drivers fault.
The driver was terrified that if he makes the wrong move he will get shot, the cops are yelling to keep his hand visible, and get out of the vehicle which might be possible if you are thinking clearly without two cops with weapons drawn yelling what seems like a command that is impossible to comply with. The cops handled the situation poorly.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:06 am to mmcgrath
quote:I can appreciate what you said, but an officer simply can NOT wait to react to what the subject's going to do. Even if you fire first, that doesn't mean that the perp can't/won't shoot you graveyard dead before he's disabled. Also, I don't think that the officer was close to anything resembling a defensive position when the man dove back in the vehicle.
Honestly, I wouldn't have shot the guy. I may have looked for defensive position or cover if I was truly concerned.
Again, simply comply with what the officer says...for EVERYONE'S benefit.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:11 am to EA6B
quote:The wrong move came when he didn't "get out of the vehicle" when the officers were at a distance from the truck telling him to...over and over. If I'm the cop, I'm thinking "something's not right" if he won't just step out of the truck....I think you would, too.
The driver was terrified that if he makes the wrong move he will get shot
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:13 am to EA6B
“Ride the Lightning” has been a part of American vernacular for at least 4 decades. Metallica released an album by that name in 1982. People have been using the phrase to describe being struck by lightning, the electric chair, electrocution by accident, being tased for a long time. Any event where someone receives a huge amount of electrical current at once has been referred to like this for a long time. There is not many people alive who would not have understood that the threat was to indicate that he/she was about to be tased. Maybe one in a million would have thought that they were about to be put into a roadside police van with an electric chair.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:18 am to EA6B
quote:
The cops handled the situation poorly.
WRONG! For 5 minutes the police asked the man to get out of the car....It is SO obvious that this minority was inviting police harassment to further the LEFT narrative.
This man was NOT terrified, he was intentionally NOT obeying the authority.
If you don't obey a police officer, you will invite elevated persuasion, period!
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:35 am to coachcrisp
You keep purposely ignoring their first command of put your hands out the window. It's like you didn't even watch the video. He complied and answered their questions about any occupants in the vehicle.
Every command after that was in conflict with the original command. It could have gotten him killed. He did the correct thing by keeping his hands visible and not putting them back inside to remove his seat belt and open the door.
While his hands were outside the window they could have easily opened his door while the other officer held him at gun point. They did eventually open his door after a few failed attempts, but only after pepper spraying him.
There was no threat when his window is rolled completely down and his hands are outside. They can clearly see the inside of the car and he is being held at gunpoint.
There was also an illegal search of his vehicle after they cuffed him. He was never arrested only detained and did not give consent.
It was awful display of policing.
Every command after that was in conflict with the original command. It could have gotten him killed. He did the correct thing by keeping his hands visible and not putting them back inside to remove his seat belt and open the door.
While his hands were outside the window they could have easily opened his door while the other officer held him at gun point. They did eventually open his door after a few failed attempts, but only after pepper spraying him.
There was no threat when his window is rolled completely down and his hands are outside. They can clearly see the inside of the car and he is being held at gunpoint.
There was also an illegal search of his vehicle after they cuffed him. He was never arrested only detained and did not give consent.
It was awful display of policing.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:50 am to coachcrisp
quote:That is his job, and the law. If he can't do it he needs to get another job.
I can appreciate what you said, but an officer simply can NOT wait to react to what the subject's going to do.
quote:Well, in this case the officer fired at least 5 times and managed to hit him once with a minor wound. So clearly having the option to shoot first, second, third, etc. wasn't going to save him against ANY real threat
Even if you fire first, that doesn't mean that the perp can't/won't shoot you graveyard dead before he's disabled.
quote:He had plenty of options for cover including his own vehicle.
Also, I don't think that the officer was close to anything resembling a defensive position when the man dove back in the vehicle.
quote:Once again, this man, and several less fortunate people, were shot while trying to comply. You keep missing that point.
Again, simply comply with what the officer says...for EVERYONE'S benefit
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:52 am to Ace Midnight
quote:This this and this. LEO "training" has become absolutely beating into their heads that it's a desperately dangerous job and that each and every citizen encounter is bringing them to the brink of death and destruction.
This crew needs better training on stop protocol - either the arresting officer OR senior officer MUST - I repeat MUST take control of the scene - ideally the senior officer controls the other officers/scene at large and the arresting officer then deals directly with the subject. They need to learn single lines of communication or some breathing techniques or some fricking thing.
I know they get them all wound up showing them that old 80s video of the crazy Vietnam vet who acts all bizarrely and then retrieves a carbine and kills the trooper on an early dashcam.
There are other videos (don't google - you've been warned) of horrific encounters between routine traffic stop subjects that end up in the death/serious injury of the officer - so they're primed with all that when they're out there.
But someone needs to remind them - when there are 3 or 4 of you there and you're wearing vests, weapons hot, situationally aware, those are HIGHLY unlikely outcomes. Focus then on keeping everyone, including the subject safe.
For frick's sake...
The stats simply don't bear this out, yet they are armed like para-military to deal with the phantom problem.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 10:56 am to BhamDore
quote:If I tell you to put both hands straight up in the air, and after you do I say, "now touch your nose". If you are attempting to comply, you do ONE of TWO things. 1)you obey the last order and reach down with a hand and touch your nose, or 2) you ask me how you can touch your nose with your hands in the air. If you do the 2nd, I'll simply TELL you how I want you to do it.
You keep purposely ignoring their first command of put your hands out the window. It's like you didn't even watch the video. He complied and answered their questions about any occupants in the vehicle.
Every command after that was in conflict with the original command. It could have gotten him killed. He did the correct thing by keeping his hands visible and not putting them back inside to remove his seat belt and open the door.
Now I suspect that being a Dore and all, you already knew this, but when you're trying to make a situation fit your predetermined narrative, things can get a little complicated.
This post was edited on 4/11/21 at 10:57 am
Posted on 4/11/21 at 11:54 am to Mickey Goldmill
Cops - “what are you? A corporal or a specialist?”
Nazario - “I’m a lieutenant.”
Bet those cops wasn’t expecting him to be a commissioned officer.
Nazario - “I’m a lieutenant.”
Bet those cops wasn’t expecting him to be a commissioned officer.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 11:55 am to ECOTIGER
I get your meaning and don’t disagree, but the situations are not the same. I don’t think there is a one size fits all answer. I just think the guy in the car could have done thing differently. I have no love for cops that abuse their power but if they have guns drawn on me, I’ll do what they say.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 12:05 pm to coachcrisp
quote:
can appreciate what you said, but an officer simply can NOT wait to react to what the subject's going to do. Even if you fire first, that doesn't mean that the perp can't/won't shoot you graveyard dead before he's disabled. Also, I don't think that the officer was close to anything resembling a defensive position when the man dove back in the vehicle.
Again, simply comply with what the officer says...for EVERYONE'S benefit.
Seems like there is a lot of fear based reaction thst is ok for the cop based on unknowns but not the person with a gun pointed at them in your logic.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 12:37 pm to Modern
quote:Not acting the way he was!..you're right!
Bet those cops wasn’t expecting him to be a commissioned officer.
Posted on 4/11/21 at 12:47 pm to oklahogjr
quote:Think about what you just posted.
Seems like there is a lot of fear based reaction thst is ok for the cop based on unknowns but not the person with a gun pointed at them in your logic.
Law enforcement has to deal with "bad people" on a regular basis and if they aren't very careful, they may not live to regret it. The average citizen rarely encounters a situation with police and their weapons drawn. Now what would cause a cop (or you and me) to consider taking his gun out?....Answer: noncompliance to a command to show that the officer's not in danger from the citizen.
This ain't rocket science! Simply put, if you don't want to put yourself or your passengers into harm's way, do what the cops tell you!
Posted on 4/11/21 at 12:49 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
Seems like there is a lot of fear based reaction thst is ok for the cop based on unknowns but not the person with a gun pointed at them in your logic.
3 more pages of horse shite
Tell when there is a 15 page thread about what cops do to white people
I still don't give a shite
Posted on 4/11/21 at 2:31 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
Seems like there is a lot of fear based reaction thst is ok for the cop based on unknowns but not the person with a gun pointed at them in your logic.
This is exactly what happens. Cops are allowed to take every precaution to ensure their safety. They enter every situation in bad faith protecting themselves from the worst case scenario.
Citizens are vilified by certain segments of the population for doing the same.
Citizen fears are dismissed.
Cops fears are deemed valid eventhough they are 100% of the time armed and have tactical gear, they also have back up, and the courts on their side.
If an American citizen kills a cop they will be killed, receive the death penalty, or never see outside again.
Cops kill citizens and get paid vacations, are rarely charged,and even more rarely convicted.
Citizens should be infinitely more afraid of Leos than vice-versa.
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