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re: The U.S. was founded as a Christian nation. Not this Judeo-Christian crap.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 10:55 am to GumboPot
Posted on 8/24/25 at 10:55 am to GumboPot
If the US was founded as a Christian nation, why are only 2/3 of the Ten Commandments enforceable by law (murder, theft, and in some contexts lying)? The rest are religious or moral guidelines only.
This post was edited on 8/24/25 at 10:57 am
3
Posted on 8/24/25 at 10:57 am to GumboPot
Christianity grew out of Judaism which is where the phrase Judeo-Christian comes from
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:02 am to Azkiger
quote:
Then why does article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli literally say the exact opposite?
Because Joel Barlow was part of the my-shite-don't-stink-Enlightenment crowd and really did not give two shits about that statement. That statement was only important to the muzzies. Barlow just wanted to get the treaty done to make trade via shipping in the Mediterranean safer. That is an easy concession when 99% of the people on the American side of the treaty only cared about mercantilism.
The muzzies were concerned about being conquered and being converted. At the time America didn't have much of a interventionalist spirit. Mercantilism was the game. Make money.
But the Treaty of Tripoli became defunct after 4 years in the First Barbary War.
Looking back the muzzies should have demanded "the U.S. is not a democracy" language because that's the language we use today to bomb Muslim countries. Just "spreading democracy".
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:05 am to LRB1967
quote:
Christianity grew out of Judaism which is where the phrase Judeo-Christian comes from
You just have to say Christianity to include the Old Testament.
"Judeo-Christian" is a political term. It's propaganda. It's a post Industrial Revolution term.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:08 am to IMSA_Fan
quote:
If the US was founded as a Christian nation, why are only 2/3 of the Ten Commandments enforceable by law (murder, theft, and in some contexts lying)? The rest are religious or moral guidelines only.
Free will.
Free will begets liberty and liberty is supposed to be a big principle that undergirds our constitution.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:18 am to GumboPot
We need to make it a Christian nation.
No government interference in worship, no government endorsement of any particular denomination, and no violence inspiring religion (ie: islam).
No government interference in worship, no government endorsement of any particular denomination, and no violence inspiring religion (ie: islam).
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:21 am to faraway
quote:well, being that Unitarianism wasn't even clearly defined at the founding of America, I'd say none of us have a clear picture. And if you use the criteria of "adamant" it probably narrows it even further down.
do you have any idea how may "founding fathers" were adamant unitarians?
Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Benjamin Franklin are the only 3 that you could maybe say are "adamant Unitarians", though I'd argue Franklin was more of a Deist than Unitarian.
If you expand your criteria to adamant Deism only, you really only add another 1 or 2 people.
In contrast, you have about 35/55 that were clearly Protestant Christians. Which leaves another 15 or so that were less specific, or clear, about their beliefs.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:39 am to Eurocat
quote:
It was founded as more of a "Deist" nation, not a Christian nation.
Incorrect.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:43 am to GumboPot
ITT: Whites arguing over two foreign middle eastern religions.
You've already lost
You've already lost
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:49 am to Old Money
quote:
The U.S. was founded as a Christian nation. Not this Judeo-Christian crap.
That statement clearly shows your ignorance of Christianity.
Christianity is true Judaism. The phrase "salvation is from the Jews" refers to the Jewish origin of the Messiah, who Christians believe is the Savior of the world. It does not mean that salvation is exclusive to Jews. Jesus's statement to the Samaritan woman in John 4:22 signifies that the divine plan for salvation, which is embodied in the Jewish people and the Messiah, has come through them to all people, including Gentiles. The Bible highlights the Jewish roots of salvation by showing that God revealed Himself to the Jewish people and entrusted them with the Scriptures and prophecies of the coming Savior.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 11:51 am to Old Money
quote:
Whites arguing over two foreign middle eastern religions.
quote:
Thor, with your mighty hammer, grant me strength in the face of my enemies. Shield me from harm and guide my hand in battle. With your power, I shall be victorious.
Hail to the sons of Day. Hail to the Night and Night's daughters. Hail the shining Aesir. Hail the mighty Vanir. and hail to the Earth who gives to all.
For in Valhalla we will meet again, feasting on meat, mead, woman, and song. Skol.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 12:04 pm to GumboPot
Surprisingly little mention about Free Masonry's role in shaping in the Founders' mind a deist rather than narrowly Christian view of the obligation of governments.
This post was edited on 8/24/25 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 8/24/25 at 12:25 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Because Joel Barlow was part of the my-shite-don't-stink-Enlightenment crowd and really did not give two shits about that statement. That statement was only important to the muzzies. Barlow just wanted to get the treaty done to make trade via shipping in the Mediterranean safer. That is an easy concession when 99% of the people on the American side of the treaty only cared about mercantilism.
The muzzies were concerned about being conquered and being converted. At the time America didn't have much of a interventionalist spirit. Mercantilism was the game. Make money.
But the Treaty of Tripoli became defunct after 4 years in the First Barbary War.
Looking back the muzzies should have demanded "the U.S. is not a democracy" language because that's the language we use today to bomb Muslim countries. Just "spreading democracy".
Bro, not a SINGLE senator voted against the Treaty. It was unanimous...
Me thinks 1790 Senators know a bit more about the founding of this country than internet knuckledraggers who listen to the fanfic that their pastors wrote.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 12:43 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
quote:Where do you people come up with this garbage? Its in some non mythology books.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:19 pm to GumboPot
quote:
The road to Damascus story.
Yeah, but the poster to whom i replied seems to think that didn't happen.
That some unnamed authors just made that stuff up.
Yet historical scholars do not dispute that Paul left a position of prestige and power in his society and traded it for a position of poverty, torture, imprisonment, and ultimately death.
I want the guy I asked to explain that.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:21 pm to GumboPot
quote:
"Judeo-Christian" is a political term. It's propaganda.
I use that term to describe values that both Judaism and Christianity share.
Yes, that's in the context of politics, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily propaganda.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:22 pm to IMSA_Fan
quote:
If the US was founded as a Christian nation, why are only 2/3 of the Ten Commandments enforceable by law (murder, theft, and in some contexts lying)? The rest are religious or moral guidelines only.
The obvious counter to that is if the US isn't a Christian nation, why are 2/3 of the Ten Commandments codified as law?
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:26 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Then why does article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli literally say the exact opposite?
International politics.
They had to get the Mooslims to sign it.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:29 pm to Azkiger
quote:the point of that article was to dispel the notion that there would be a religious war of Christians vs Muslims. It was a lie, like politicians do, to get an agreement signed.
Bro, not a SINGLE senator voted against the Treaty. It was unanimous...
Me thinks 1790 Senators know a bit more about the founding of this country than internet knuckledraggers who listen to the fanfic that their pastors wrote.
That article isn't an actual statement on the grounds for which the country was founded.
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