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re: The pope just said: “I prefer not to comment on American politics”
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:26 pm to Champagne
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:26 pm to Champagne
quote:Sure, there is a way. You clearly interpret it that way. That doesn't mean you are correct, and I provided an abundance of support for why your interpretation is incorrect.
And you don't think that there is any way for a reasonable person to interpret that Bible passage to reach the conclusion that Jesus Christ was opposed to the Death Penalty.
And since you are so fond of looking to church history for truth, I even provided the evidence that the RCC utilized the death penalty in partnership with the civil governments for centuries.
I know you want to argue with me on this, but you have to also address the Scriptural and historical arguments.
quote:Come on now, you aren't arguing in good faith here. You know I'm not saying that the passage in question is demonstrating that Jesus is a "BIG proponent" of the death penalty. I'm arguing that the passage says nothing at all about the principle of capital punishment, but was a story that showed both Jesus' wisdom as God in trapping His enemies, as well as His compassion towards sinners. It doesn't speak to His view on capital punishment at all.
In fact, to you it is absolutely clear from that particular Bible passage that Jesus Christ is definitely and clearly a BIG proponent of and very much in agreement with the Death Penalty. And, if we human beings hope to be Christ-Like, we must imitate Christ by being fervent ADVOCATES of the World's Governments legal and moral power to kill its prisoners.
This makes total sense, especially in light of the fact that the Governments of the World today are all under the control of totally rational, moral, conscientious good Christians. Yes.
OK, Foo. Got it.
That's why I spoke about several other passages that demonstrate the principle of justice, including Jesus' return at the end to administer the second-death penalty.
Again, it's the weight of many Scriptures and history against an alternate interpretation of a single passage that doesn't even make an obvious point about capital punishment (other than that it must be lawful).
0
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:28 pm to Champagne
quote:
o that we can see how HE would have handled it. I think He would have ministered to the person condemned to death and then told the crowd of stone-throwers, "OK, Folks, I've ministered to her, now crush her skull with some big-honking rocks like God wants
Got it in your view the council of Trent was wrong and the council they held in the fourth century which gave authority to governments to condemn capital Crimes was wrong as well but now the Catholic Church finally got it right I understand your point of view
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:29 pm to Guntoter1
quote:I believe that the Church and State are two different spheres of authority, and that one can work in conjunction with the other for the purpose of the spread of the gospel.
Wow, you just admitted that the Catholic Church has the authority to condemn heretics to death laugh my arse off
I don't believe the Church wields the sword, nor that the State holds the keys.
All I'm saying in the text you quoted from me is that God instituted the death penalty and even commanded it for the nation of Israel.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:29 pm to Guntoter1
quote:
Yes, I think God has changed his mind many times
I’ve already stated where God changed his mind on the Death penalty
Yes indeed, God was going to destroy all of the Israelites until Moses convinced God otherwise, according to the OT story.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:31 pm to FooManChoo
Yeah but you think God wants TODAY'S Governments of the world to be killing prisoners? We have a bunch of morons running the world today. Well they are OFTEN morons but others are EVIL morons.
Does God today want our Governments of the world to have the God given power to kill its prisoners? Tough question.
Does God today want our Governments of the world to have the God given power to kill its prisoners? Tough question.
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:36 pm to Champagne
So far, I have not stated my personal view on the death penalty. I’m just relaying the facts as I see them.
Don’t make the mistake that I think that the Catholic Church is in error , i do not the magisterium authority of the church I submit
The problem is nobody knows what that teaching is anymore. Thanks to Francis.
Don’t make the mistake that I think that the Catholic Church is in error , i do not the magisterium authority of the church I submit
The problem is nobody knows what that teaching is anymore. Thanks to Francis.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:38 pm to Champagne
quote:Executing justice, not "killing prisoners", as if any and all prisoners should be put to death.
Yeah but you think God wants TODAY'S Governments of the world to be killing prisoners?
God is a God of justice, and He states that in some circumstances, what is just is the death penalty. Given that God has commanded it in the past, it cannot be sinful to put deserving criminals to death.
quote:You think Israel was always upright and holy? You think they never acted sinfully or unjustly? God condemns Israel many times for their lack of justice and their wicked ways.
We have a bunch of morons running the world today. Well they are OFTEN morons but others are EVIL morons.
And let's not forget that when Paul was speaking about the government being servants of God for good in wielding the sword of justice, Nero was in power and ruling a wicked, corrupt, and idolatrous Roman Empire.
quote:It's consistent with God's character and command that all governments execute justice through the death penalty when it is just and warranted to do so.
Does God today want our Governments of the world to have the God given power to kill its prisoners? Tough question.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:40 pm to burger bearcat
Render unto God what is God’s.
The Popes comments for the past weeks have been biblical, even if the Cult doesn’t like it.
The Popes comments for the past weeks have been biblical, even if the Cult doesn’t like it.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:41 pm to Guntoter1
I would have to closely examine the exact quotes in the documents you mention. Perhaps the RCC is simply clarifying the issue now?
Or perhaps Jesus Christ Himself has always been against the Death Penalty, which might indicate that God Himself changed His mind, as he did when He changed his mind about killing all of the Israelites before Moses talked Him out of it?
Or perhaps Jesus Christ Himself has always been against the Death Penalty, which might indicate that God Himself changed His mind, as he did when He changed his mind about killing all of the Israelites before Moses talked Him out of it?
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:44 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
It's consistent with God's character and command that all governments execute justice through the death penalty when it is just and warranted to do so.
The legitimate Governments of Mexico and Spain were executing Christian clergy less than 100 years ago and when I look around today, I suspect that this might happen again. You may be very certain that God wants Governments to execute prisoners. All I'm saying is that I am not so certain about that.
Governments of the world today are not exactly trying to be Christ Like. The USA has a powerful Left wing that wants to destroy Christianity as we know it. Russia and China executes clergy that displease the Government.
I don't have to tell you what would happen to you if you tried to preach the Gospel in a country with a Muslim Government.
Even the Israeli Govt is not especially kind to Christians.
I rest my case.
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:49 pm to Champagne
quote:I don't know why you keep twisting my words, but I'm not saying that the death penalty is a good and righteous action in every single instance of punishment by a government. It is a form of justice to the "evil doer" according to Paul.
The legitimate Governments of Mexico and Spain were executing Christian clergy less than 100 years ago and when I look around today, I suspect that this might happen again. You may be very certain that God wants Governments to execute prisoners. All I'm saying is that I am not so certain about that.
Governments of the world today are not exactly trying to be Christ Like.
If a Christian is put to death for being a Christian, clearly that's an unjust use of the death penalty. If a professing Christian murders his parents in their sleep, the death penalty is a just instrument that the government can use.
The abuse of a tool doesn't mean the tool is evil.
You need to wrestle with both the Scriptures and with history. So far, all you've done is point to a passage that doesn't even speak to the issue of capital punishment one way or another, and the abuse of the practice. You need to do better here.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:52 pm to Champagne
quote:
would have to closely examine the exact quotes in the documents you mention. Perhaps the RCC is simply clarifying the issue now?
Sorry to be so negative they are not clarifying the issue. They are confusing it.
They have been using phcology to slowly move us into a new teaching on the death penalty. It what they are doing with everything. Female alter girls is a step toward female priests. Blessing same sex couples is a step toward gay marriage etc …
Jesus warned against wolves in sheep’s clothing. He was talking about our Shepard.
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 6:57 pm
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:53 pm to FooManChoo
I'm doing very well here and I thank you for your input.
If a Christian Church decides that it will lobby the Governments of the world to abolish the Death Penalty, how will God punish those lobbyists, in your opinion? Condemn them to Hell?
If a Christian Church decides that it will lobby the Governments of the world to abolish the Death Penalty, how will God punish those lobbyists, in your opinion? Condemn them to Hell?
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:56 pm to Champagne
quote:God punishes injustice, but no one is damned for merely a wrong or even sinful opinion, unless that opinion is that God is not God and the gospel is not true.
If a Christian Church decides that it will lobby the Governments of the world to abolish the Death Penalty, how will God punish those lobbyists, in your opinion? Condemn them to Hell?
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 6:56 pm
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:59 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
God punishes injustice, but no one is damned for merely a wrong or even sinful opinion, unless that opinion is that God is not God and the gospel is not true.
Well . . . I was hoping that you'd opine that God would approve of us stoning those lobbyists to death by crushing their skulls with big honking rocks, but, I guess your answer makes more sense.
I concede the point to you, even though you have ruined the party.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 7:49 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:except a week ago he compared abortion to the death penalty.
religious leader that doesn't get involved in the affairs of state?
He's not only a hypocrite, he's an idiot.
Posted on 10/11/25 at 3:20 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
What is 'not Catholic' about this particular Pope?
He is unwilling to defend western traditions and Catholicism in particular. He stands by and watches as Muslims persecute Christians in Nigeria. He does a lot of praying about it and condemning it, but what he should be doing is getting Christian nations to bring war on the warring Muslims the way Popes used to. In lieu of that, Christianity will wane and be extinguished.
Posted on 10/11/25 at 3:50 pm to Cosmo
quote:
The people that constantly bring up the pope on here arent Catholic.
"Only the hivemind can critique the hivemind."
Posted on 10/11/25 at 3:52 pm to Cosmo
quote:
The people that constantly bring up the pope on here arent Catholic.
theres a reason for that
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