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re: The pledge of allegiance

Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:03 pm to
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
37264 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:03 pm to
quote:

I’m interested in knowing if any of you, personally, have ever been taught to say it without “under God”. Thanks in advance.



It was added in the fifties. So I would assume there are very very few, if any posters who were old enough to have been taught the previous version.
Posted by CPTDCKHD
Member since Sep 2019
1487 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:03 pm to
I agree to an extent. Please, elaborate upon the socialist aspect of the pledge.
Posted by CPTDCKHD
Member since Sep 2019
1487 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:04 pm to
Thanks
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
115324 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:04 pm to
I haven't said "indivisible" in 35 years.
Posted by Swamp Angel
West Georgia Chicken Farm Territory
Member since Jul 2004
10164 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:08 pm to
quote:

we aren't supposed to be a single "nation", but a federation of states.


For the first portion of the existence of this republic, it was referred to as "these United States." In the late 1850's the term "The United States" began to be used more frequently. Since then, the states have become nothing more than subservient provinces. Government has always redefined words to its liking in order attain more power.

Thanks, for reaffirming the above fact regarding our federation of states, stuntman.
Posted by oklahogjr
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
40237 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:09 pm to
quote:

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.


ushistory.com

here is a little more about that guy. hes' essentially who TD poliboard hates.

quote:

Bellamy was a Christian socialist[1] who "championed 'the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources, which he believed was inherent in the teachings of Jesus.'"[10] In 1891, Bellamy was "forced from his Boston pulpit for preaching against the evils of capitalism",[3] and eventually stopped attending church altogether after moving to Florida, reportedly because of the racism he witnessed there.[11] Francis's career as a preacher ended because of his tendency to describe Jesus as a socialist. In the 21st century, Bellamy is considered an early American Democratic socialist.[12]

Francis Bellamy was a leader in the public education movement, the nationalization movement, and the Christian socialist movement. He united his grassroots network to start a collective memory activism in 1892.[13]

French philosopher Henri de Saint-Simon's "new Christianity", which stressed using science to tackle poverty, influenced Bellamy and many of the "new St. Simonians." They saw nationalization (de-privatization) and public education as the policy solutions.[13]

In 1889, Francis Bellamy served as founding vice president and wrote several articles for the Society of Christian Socialists, a grassroots organization founded in Boston. The newspaper Dawn was run by his cousin Edward and Frances Willard. Francis Bellamy wrote about the Golden Rule and quoted Bible passages that denounced greed and lust for money. He was also chairman of the education committee.[13]

Bellamy offered public education classes with topics such as "Jesus the socialist", "What is Christian Socialism?", and "Socialism versus anarchy". In 1891, Bellamy was asked to write down this last lecture, which called for a strong government and argued that only the socialist economy could allow both the worker and the owner to practice the golden rule. This essay, along with public relations experience, allowed him to coordinate a massive Columbus Day campaign.[13]

On immigration and universal suffrage, Bellamy wrote in the editorial of The Illustrated American, Vol. XXII, No. 394, p. 258: "[a] democracy like ours cannot afford to throw itself open to the world where every man is a lawmaker, every dull-witted or fanatical immigrant admitted to our citizenship is a bane to the commonwealth.”[10] And further: "Where all classes of society merge insensibly into one another every alien immigrant of inferior race may bring corruption to the stock. There are races more or less akin to our own whom we may admit freely and get nothing but advantage by the infusion of their wholesome blood. But there are other races, which we cannot assimilate without lowering our racial standard, which should be as sacred to us as the sanctity of our homes."[14]

wiki w/sources below
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
10817 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

Swamp Angel


Posted by Themole
Palatka Florida
Member since Feb 2013
5557 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:16 pm to
quote:

I would rather pledge allegiance to the Constitution.


I have no problem with the U.S. flag, and I pledge allegiance to it proudly.

I also find my self saying Constitution in place of the flag quite often.
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
10817 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:20 pm to
quote:

If we, as a nation, under God, can recognize and admit our individual failures, then, as a nation, under God, we can right the ship.


I've wanted to believe this for the last 20 years, but it's not going to happen.

Just look at the math of it; Do you think one congressman can really "represent" 700+k constituents? The numbers only get worse when you look at senators and presidents.

Secession can't come fast enough, and the more we pretend we can fix the fed gov, the longer we put off much needed balkinization.

This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 7:22 pm
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:21 pm to
quote:

here is a little more about that guy. hes' essentially who TD poliboard hates.

It’s why, while this former friend was a congenital liar, I believed him on that claim. Again, it’s something only a commie or fascist would write. Don’t let the “Under God” that was added in there decades later fool you. I know how authoritarians talk, and that’s it.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

I have no problem with the U.S. flag, and I pledge allegiance to it proudly.

I also find my self saying Constitution in place of the flag quite often.


The flag can be taken over. The Constitution merely shredded. No, you should not pledge allegiance to a flag.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

indivisible


Putting your main argument aside, our nation’s founders would have found pledging eternal allegiance to a flag an abhorrent act.

The Constitution never would have been ratified if the sovereign and independent states knew it would be transfigured into a compact unto death.

“However strong a Government may be, it cannot easily escape from the consequences of a principle which it has once admitted as the foundation of its Constitution. The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the states; and these, in uniting together, have not forfeited their nationality, nor have they been reduced to the condition of one and the same people. If one of the states chooses to withdraw from the compact, it would be difficult to disapprove its right of doing so, and the Federal Government would have no means of maintaining its claims directly either by force or right.”Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
44214 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

The pledge of allegiance is a socialist creed that violates the First Commandment. I will pledge allegiance to my God and my family above all.


quote:

under God


Isn’t the nation stated to be subservient to God?

I’m okay with this.

God
Family
Country

Posted by CPTDCKHD
Member since Sep 2019
1487 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:27 pm to
Nicely done sir. And , quickly, no less. I would only add, that, there are many things that the enemy has introduced- only to be re-purposed for his own destruction. As believers in the one true God, we are compelled, by our faith, to be inclusive- to a point. Once that line has been crossed, our faith compels us to behave differently. I have loved this country, because it was founded on the principles of faith in God. I don’t believe in giving up without a fight. Come and take it.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

The pledge of allegiance is a socialist creed that violates the First Commandment. I will pledge allegiance to my God and my family above all.




The POA was written by an Francis Bellamy, an avowed socialist.

Look up the Bellamy Salute and see what you find.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:01 pm to
quote:

Do you think one congressman can really "represent" 700+k constituents? The numbers only get worse when you look at senators and presidents.


The most insidious myth perpetuated in this UniParty® charade is the fanciful notion that if we only would send the correct slate of sock puppets to Washington, the Republic will be saved. It is an absurd proposition.

Washington can no more be reformed than a malignant cancer. The UniParty®, the Deep State, the global elite, the 0.0001%, the Oligarchs of the New World Order, the Illuminati, whatever you want to call them, indeed seek to have our civil society fall into violent degradation to maintain their death grip on power.

If Liberty is to continue in this once great nation, it will arise in some form of subsidiary, nullification and even secession movements at the state level. Our nation was indeed founded upon the right to address irreconcilable differences through political separatism — on that matter there should be no debate:

“Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the western confederacy will be as much our children & descendants as those of the eastern.... I now foresee a separation at some future day, yet should feel the duty & the desire to promote the western interests as zealously as the eastern, doing all the good for both portions of our future family...”

Thomas Jefferson, January 29, 1804 letter to Dr. Joseph Priestly.


Though I am afraid this nation may reach the tipping point before that happens, the current crisis continues until enough Red State Americans come to this inescapable conclusion. In any event, it is what it is.
This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 8:03 pm
Posted by MrFreakinMiyagi
Reseda
Member since Feb 2007
19960 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:03 pm to
quote:

The pledge of allegiance

Is creepy
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39847 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:30 pm to
quote:

I get that. But, the government is supposed to be for the people, by the people. The people (which is us) are responsible for upholding the ideals that the flag represents. We, collectively, over decades, have failed those ideals- miserably. If we, as a nation, under God, can recognize and admit our individual failures, then, as a nation, under God, we can right the ship. Even if you don’t believe in God- you have to realize that those who do are not your enemy- unless you engage in activities that are detrimental to our first amendment rights.
Good lord, boomer, are you full of shite.

First of all, your precious "under god" was added in 1954. You aren't entitled to alternate facts just because.

What's more, it's creepy as hell to have very young schoolchildren indoctrinated into mindlessly "pledging" allegiance to a piece of cloth and a political construct.

quote:

We, collectively, over decades, have failed those ideals
We were "failing those ideals" much more bigly when we were much more godly. Ever heard of slavery? Ever heard of Jim Crow? Do you think America was more or less "under god" from 1783 - 1965 than present day?

quote:

Even if you don’t believe in God- you have to realize that those who do are not your enemy
I mean, do you think moslems are our enemy or not?
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39847 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:32 pm to
quote:


Putting your main argument aside, our nation’s founders would have found pledging eternal allegiance to a flag an abhorrent act.
Other things they would have found abhorrent: standing armies/navies and incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Posted by Landmass
Premium Member
Member since Jun 2013
25559 posts
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:36 pm to
I pledge allegiance to God and no flag at all. I always thought the pledge was a weird prayer like thing that we did. I certainly don't pledge allegiance to the current government.
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