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re: The only true conflict is Christianity vs Communism.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 10:35 am to LSUTigersVCURams
Posted on 12/11/19 at 10:35 am to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
How do you fight Communism? Christianity.
Christianity is not inherently capitalist. And there is nothing explicitly stating a communist can not have Christianity as a religion. See Soviet Russia.
Christianity is an altruistic religion. If anything it actually conflicts with pure capitalism. Pure capitalism cares only about profit motive all restraints removed. Many things Christianity teaches are not inherently profitable to the practitioner (monetarily).
Posted on 12/11/19 at 10:39 am to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
The best evidence of this is the following: When Russia was communist, the Democratic Party was a tireless apologist for Russia. Today, Russia is largely a Christian nation (in spite of the fact that one of the most powerful totalitarian governments the world has ever seen made it official government policy for half a century to eradicate Religion), Russia is the font of all evil.
But Russia always was a Christian nation. They follow Eastern Orthodoxy. Its just a different variation (a more religious savvy individual please correct me) than the Catholic/Protestantism of the US.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 10:50 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:
How are communism and materialism synonymous?
Capitalists have nicer materials. That’s why it’s better
Posted on 12/11/19 at 10:56 am to DeltaDoc
quote:
It’s Christianity v. Sin IMO.
You are right.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 10:57 am to volod
quote:
there is nothing explicitly stating a communist can not have Christianity as a religion. See Soviet Russia.
WOW.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:08 am to LSUTigersVCURams
Islam vs the rest of the planet predates communism by a good bit.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:09 am to volod
quote:
But Russia always was a Christian nation. They follow Eastern Orthodoxy. Its just a different variation (a more religious savvy individual please correct me) than the Catholic/Protestantism of the US.
You are correct, except for the time when the Bolsheviks held power during which time the church in Russia was suppressed. Now, the church in Russia is undergoing a massive revival with mass baptism and growth like you wouldn’t believe.
The Russian Faith Website
https://www.russian-faith.com
Putin: We Need to Revive Our Christian Roots, Not Communist Ones
LINK
This post was edited on 12/11/19 at 11:11 am
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:10 am to SantaFe
quote:Love of money.
Money is the root of all Good.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:20 am to volod
quote:Christianity provides the basis for property rights, which is foundational for Capitalism.
Christianity is not inherently capitalist.
quote:It's not a matter of profession of faith so much as consistency between the profession and the teachings of that faith. There are several Communist "doctrines" that conflict greatly with Christian doctrines, especially in terms of the state's role in the lives of the people vs. that of God. But yes, Christians can have Communistic beliefs even if they are contradictory to Biblical teachings, they are just being inconsistent with them.
And there is nothing explicitly stating a communist can not have Christianity as a religion. See Soviet Russia.
quote:Pure Capitalism is also altruistic out of necessity, at least where competition exists. One of the fundamental concepts of Capitalism is that in order to get what you want, you have to give someone else what they want. It's altruistic out of necessity.
Christianity is an altruistic religion. If anything it actually conflicts with pure capitalism. Pure capitalism cares only about profit motive all restraints removed. Many things Christianity teaches are not inherently profitable to the practitioner (monetarily).
Now, you can be altruistic because it's the only way to make money, or you can be altruistic because it's both a means to make money and because it aligns with your Christian beliefs. Christians who apply their beliefs to business can take the best of Capitalism while throwing away the worst aspects.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:21 am to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
Christianity (natural law) versus Communism (materialism).
If this was the case it would be moreso to sun worshipers vs moon worshipers.
An easier more modern day is the NSDAP vs Communism. Or nationalists vs globalists. But this is really all about power, and Christianity is by no means natural law. The eternal fight is a convoluted mess of greed exploiting empathy. A return to natural law would involve a horrific cleansing the likes we cannot imagine.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:42 am to McLemore
quote:
Since you'd rather downvote than support your fallacies :
I did no such thing.
quote:
Being taught something at a young age, on the one hand, and that "something" being true, in the other hand, are not mutually exclusive conditions. Make a better argument.
Nope. The statement stands on its own.
quote:
You define "spirituality" as "awareness of our own mortality," without addressing the OP's actual position. Merely redefining a term is not an argument. Try again.
If the term is misdefined then it must be correctly stated to move in the accurate direction.
quote:
The absence of first-hand knowledge about the details of the origins and eschatology of the material universe, and fear and anxiety regarding that lack of knowledge, is not an argument against a reality beyond the material universe we can theoretically observe.
This absence causes fear which leads to spirituality as a blanket means of explaining the absence.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:46 am to boogiewoogie1978
You just restated your fallacies in different mouth words.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 11:55 am to McLemore
quote:
You just restated your fallacies in different mouth words.
tomayto, tomahto
Posted on 12/11/19 at 12:03 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Christianity provides the basis for property rights, which is foundational for Capitalism
Understood. The issue at hand is that everything a Christian does is not inherently for profit. Capitalism doesnt care if you earn millions of dollars fairly or not. It does not care if you lied, cheated, or sinned in any manner to get money or not.
quote:
It's not a matter of profession of faith so much as consistency between the profession and the teachings of that faith. There are several Communist "doctrines" that conflict greatly with Christian doctrines, especially in terms of the state's role in the lives of the people vs. that of God. But yes, Christians can have Communistic beliefs even if they are contradictory to Biblical teachings, they are just being inconsistent with them.
Again, I agree. I'm not saying all communist doctrines align with christianity. I'm simply stating that Christianity was prominent during the Cold War in Russia. So we agree that Christians can be Communist (albeit with variances since their all multiple communist philosophies).
quote:
Pure Capitalism is also altruistic out of necessity, at least where competition exists. One of the fundamental concepts of Capitalism is that in order to get what you want, you have to give someone else what they want. It's altruistic out of necessity.
Now, you can be altruistic because it's the only way to make money, or you can be altruistic because it's both a means to make money and because it aligns with your Christian beliefs. Christians who apply their beliefs to business can take the best of Capitalism while throwing away the worst aspects.
In retrospect, I should be more clear regarding altruism. It's not that businesses aren't altruistic, but that's out of necessity to maintain customers. They legally dont need to be fair in many respects.
This ties into my earlier claim. Companies get accused of false advertising, cutting corners, lying to customers, etc.
This post was edited on 12/11/19 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 12/11/19 at 12:14 pm to volod
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 2:00 am
Posted on 12/11/19 at 12:20 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
How do you fight Communism? Christianity.
So you pull out your Bible when you want to argue with an Antifag or a smug hipster guzzling a soy latte?
While I'm sure there are Christian based religious arguments against communism, I've never heard this discussion play out with religious themed objections.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 12:31 pm to boogiewoogie1978
In all seriousness though, Alvin Plantinga does the best job of any philosopher I've read, analyzing the issues with modern materialism:
Decent Summary of Plantinga on Materialism
And, in his own words, Plaintinga's evolutionary argument against naturalism (close to a synonym of materialism in this context):
Decent Summary of Plantinga on Materialism
quote:
Plantinga finds materialism to be internally incoherent.[5] In his view, matter could not (even in theory) have all of the properties that materialists rely on it to have. For instance, humans obviously have the capacity to believe things and to sense things. What would it mean for some piece of matter to have a belief? Or what would it mean for a collection of particles to feel or sense something?
Materialists operate with these concepts—they have beliefs (e.g. about materialism) and they have feelings and sensations (e.g. looking at bits of matter in a microscope and recording the data). They rely on beliefs and sensations to do their work and arrive at their conclusions. But once they arrive at these conclusions—namely, the conclusion that all that exists is inert, conscious-less matter—they throw these concepts out. In other words, Plantinga accuses materialists of relying on non-material concepts to get to their conclusions, to then discredit the path they used to get there. For Plantinga, this is incoherent.
Plantinga also addresses a further problem with materialism. What does the word “matter” even mean? How would a materialist answer this question? Any definition of “matter” would presuppose that matter is not the final explanation, or, in other words, that everything cannot be reduced to descriptions of matter because matter itself can be further reduced. The only way out of this infinite regression is to suppose that matter is basic, that it requires no explanation. But this primus nature of matter then seems pretty mysterious, perhaps even religious.
In the end, Plantinga thinks that the materialist, just like the religious believer, begins with certain starting points that serve as axioms – whether the existence of irreducible matter or the existence of an unmoved mover, of God. When these alternate groundings are acknowledged, true discussion can begin, with both religious and non-religious perspectives addressing the core of disagreement rather than the periphery.
And, in his own words, Plaintinga's evolutionary argument against naturalism (close to a synonym of materialism in this context):
quote:
The basic idea of my argument could be put (a bit crudely) as follows. First, the probability of our cognitive faculties being reliable, given naturalism and evolution, is low. (To put it a bit inaccurately but suggestively, if naturalism and evolution were both true, our cognitive faculties would very likely not be reliable.) But then according to the second premise of my argument, if I believe both naturalism and evolution, I have a defeater for my intuitive assumption that my cognitive faculties are reliable. If I have a defeater for that belief, however, then I have a defeater for any belief I take to be produced by my cognitive faculties. That means that I have a defeater for my belief that naturalism and evolution are true. So my belief that naturalism and evolution are true gives me a defeater for that very belief; that belief shoots itself in the foot and is self-referentially incoherent; therefore I cannot rationally accept it. And if one can’t accept both naturalism and evolution, that pillar of current science, then there is serious conflict between naturalism and science.” – Alvin Plantinga
This post was edited on 12/11/19 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 12/11/19 at 12:32 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
Isn't the basis of Communism the opposite of this?
Nope
Posted on 12/11/19 at 1:09 pm to efrad
quote:
efrad
I'm not suggesting that communism is better than capitalism. Capitalism will always be the superior system.
I'm making a comparison between Christianity and Capitalism. As they are not synonymous with each other.
Christianity promotes people to behave their best on a personal and spiritual level. Capitalism promotes what makes profit. What makes profit isnt always Christian (drugs,sex, degeneracy, etc.)
Communism isnt really America's problem. It's just a bad talking point by misguided people. America's biggest problem is corporatism.
quote:
Corporatism is a political ideology which advocates the organization of society by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, scientific, or guild associations on the basis of their common interests.
Posted on 12/11/19 at 1:18 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
Is is, quite simply, Christianity (natural law)
Could you expound on this, particularly what you mean when you refer to "natural law?" I'm interested in hearing how you tie it to Christianity.
ETA:
quote:
Uh, I'm an atheist and I don't like communism.
This post was edited on 12/11/19 at 1:20 pm
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