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Started By
Message
re: The medical examiner who just testified was devastating to the prosecution
Posted on 4/9/21 at 3:59 pm to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 4/9/21 at 3:59 pm to Roger Klarvin
Every update I get from Yahoo has been "Time to butt Chauvin! It's over for him!"
0
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:01 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
The prosecution brought on pulmonologist spent a number of hours making that argument in detail. Perhaps your medical expertise takes you a different direction, but the argument was certainly made.
He was paid to make an argument that the pulmonology community immediately took to social media to dismantle. Twitter was a whose who of pulmonologists and critical care physicians, many of whom believe Chauvin to be guilty, saying many of his conclusions were unfounded and unknowable.
For example, his claim about ventricular arrhythmias always producing an immediate loss of consciousness is just patently false and everyone with internal medicine training knows that. It’s just simply not true. This was the case with several of his other claims, including that it’s reasonable to believe anyone would have died in that circumstance.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:01 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
Right. Shoulder blades.
But not on the neck for the entire ~10 minutes that has been repeated, ad nauseum. It was intermittent. The shoulder blades were the point of restraint and the neck was the point of control.
I'm not defending the cops actions, but they were ancillary to Floyd's general medical condition and, in particular, his substance abuse.
Plus - it remains relatively clear the officer didn't have the required mens rea for a traditional charge of murder, although I admit ignorance of all the required elements in Minnesota.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:02 pm to David_DJS
quote:
You seem to be an expert on me, so explain my emotional need to disagree with Tobin.
Over time this case as seemed to migrate from being one where pretty much everyone saw a man slowly killed on video to one where pretty much everyone other than hardcore conservative partisans saw a man slowly killed on video. So I'd chalk it up to partisanship.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:03 pm to longwayfromLA
Chauvin: the person you long to see fry
GF: your hero
So...
How much weight did the person you want to see fry apply to your hero’s neck?
Surely you know.
GF: your hero
So...
How much weight did the person you want to see fry apply to your hero’s neck?
Surely you know.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:05 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
Perhaps your medical expertise takes in a different direction
That's twice, so far, that you have used this phrase.
Tell us...what is your medical "expertise" again? Clinical or managerial? What is your experience besides listening to what some paid expert had to say?
Why do you believe what one paid expert has to say but not believe what the other paid expert had to say?
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:05 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
But not on the neck for the entire ~10 minutes that has been repeated, ad nauseum. It was intermittent. The shoulder blades were the point of restraint and the neck was the point of control.
I'm not defending the cops actions, but they were ancillary to Floyd's general medical condition and, in particular, his substance abuse.
Seems like the doctors that have testified to date disagree with you on these points, especially your last one. But if you medical expertise takes you in another direction...
quote:
Plus - it remains relatively clear the officer didn't have the required mens rea for a traditional charge of murder, although I admit ignorance of all the required elements in Minnesota.
I have made no comments one way or the other about why Chauvin did what he did.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:06 pm to roadGator
quote:
Chauvin: the person you long to see fry
GF: your hero
I don't believe in the death penalty and George Floyd is hardly is hardly my hero.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:06 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Or without internal medicine training. If that was true, we would all be dead.
For example, his claim about ventricular arrhythmias always producing an immediate loss of consciousness is just patently false
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:08 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Finally - somebody speaking plain English in a way a 7th grader can understand. This will resonate with the jury.
Even if Chauvin’s actions contributed to the death, they did so in the same manner as a fender bender triggering a heart attack contributes to a death.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:09 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
So I'd chalk it up to partisanship.
Because you're dishonest and looking at this through "oppressed black man" eyeglasses. I'd chalk it up to autopsy results that revealed Floyd swallowed his fentanyl stash, and more people seeing the entire video instead of cherry-picked clips.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:12 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Do you believe that a healthy person with a knee on his back and neck as GF experienced would die from that treatment? I've read that the knee was between his shoulder blades and the snippet of video I saw it appeared on the side of his neck. Maybe it was both over time - but would that kill a healthy person the size/strength of GF?
Hell no. That restraint was very moderate as you can tell by watching Chauvin that he wasn't merely crushing GF. Chauvin and his kit is maybe 170, so an absolute manlet.
There absolutely have been many death associated with compressing people's chests, one famous bodycam case of a White man being crushed to death as he begged for his life and the pigs were laughing at him. This was a few years ago. He was White, so few people cared.
This post was edited on 4/9/21 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:12 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
Over time this case as seemed to migrate from being one where pretty much everyone saw a man slowly killed on video to one where pretty much everyone other than hardcore conservative partisans saw a man slowly killed on video. So I'd chalk it up to partisanship.
Seems like a shitload of speculation for someone pretending to be persuaded only by fact and expert opinion. You're right about one thing, however, the video of Chauvin caused an immediate and near consensus belief that the cop/knee killed GF. I thought the video was atrocious, but then we learned how the state AG played the game of slow-walking facts, and those facts at least raised some pretty insightful questions.
It's instructive you chalk it up to partisanship. Very typical.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:13 pm to Flats
quote:
Neither are you.
Of course I'm not in position to have an informed opinion on
a question of cardiopulmonary medicine, hence my deference to the 5 experts that I quoted. You one the other hand have to tell yourself that you know better than they because you have an emotional need to believe Floyd OD'd or whatever.
quote:
I thought Floyd was claiming that he couldn't breathe well before he was face down with a knee in his back. Is that correct or not?
Did you watch Tobin's testimony at all? He covered all of this.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:15 pm to lsufball19
Jury nullification is when the jury disregards law when the evidence clearly shows guilt, but they acquit anyway. I don't think that is gonna be applicable here. In my personal opinion, grant it I am not in the courtroom and privy to all the info, there is going reasonable doubt.
I can't quite tell your intent with the comment. Not trying to be argumentative.
I can't quite tell your intent with the comment. Not trying to be argumentative.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:16 pm to Flats
quote:
I'd chalk it up to autopsy results that revealed Floyd swallowed his fentanyl stash, and more people seeing the entire video instead of cherry-picked clips.
This is rich. You accuse me of cherry picking then cite one finding in the autopsies but not the conclusion of the either of the autopsies.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:20 pm to longwayfromLA
How much weight was on his neck according your hero experts?
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:21 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
You accuse me of cherry picking
The prosecution's entire case is dependent on cherry picking, which is why cross exams have been so devastating to their case. The defense is even calling one of the state's witnesses as his own to make his case.
What a catastrophe.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:22 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
So what Mr. Tobin says can be conceivably true,
I think it’s wild to argue that the fentanyl played no role in Floyd’s death. To argue that, you have to have an insurmountable bias. All the autopsies found a role for the fentanyl.
Posted on 4/9/21 at 4:23 pm to mtntiger
The worst thing Chauvin did was when he noticed the life going out of him, he continued to stay in the position he was in. I believe Floyd died from a cardiac event, likely a SVT event that went long enough to cause his cardiac arrest. The whole arrest and the drugs ingested facilitated the process. Chauvin is definitely not guilty of murder as he is charged. There may be some other charge based on his actions but murder isn’t one.
This post was edited on 4/9/21 at 4:24 pm
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