- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Somebody answer this. Why did China need a spy balloon?
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:44 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:44 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
Satellites can't get the type of data something with a lower altitude has, at least not always at the same resolution. I'm a geospatial analyst and have worked with satellite data as well as data from other platforms for the past two decades.
What concerned me with the balloon was that if was being used to capture LiDAR data. You cannot capture data that precise at such a fine resolution from space. I work for USGS and we are one of the nations main LiDAR data collection agencies, and the vast majority of that is taken from planes as it is not nearly as precise from space. That collected data is largely available to the public but with the exceptions of LiDAR over military installations as well as other sensitive sites. With the resolution of this data you can build 3D models of cities so precise that they even show the exact locations of doors on buildings, windows, etc. Heck because of the way it is made it captures both bare earth readings as well as any built up areas or tree canopy. Do I know that that is what they were doing, I certainly don't but neither did anyone else and that data is such that it could be fed back to servers in China on the fly. I say all that to say the satellites provide some great imagery and other data but not at the same resolution a data collection device could get at lower altitudes
What concerned me with the balloon was that if was being used to capture LiDAR data. You cannot capture data that precise at such a fine resolution from space. I work for USGS and we are one of the nations main LiDAR data collection agencies, and the vast majority of that is taken from planes as it is not nearly as precise from space. That collected data is largely available to the public but with the exceptions of LiDAR over military installations as well as other sensitive sites. With the resolution of this data you can build 3D models of cities so precise that they even show the exact locations of doors on buildings, windows, etc. Heck because of the way it is made it captures both bare earth readings as well as any built up areas or tree canopy. Do I know that that is what they were doing, I certainly don't but neither did anyone else and that data is such that it could be fed back to servers in China on the fly. I say all that to say the satellites provide some great imagery and other data but not at the same resolution a data collection device could get at lower altitudes
0
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:44 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
1. Signals intelligence - Satellites are limited in what signals they can intercept.
2. Higher resolution imagery
3. Longer "time on station" - Satellites that are in a low orbit only cross a specific point on earth for a brief moment every once in a while. Geostationary satellites are too high in orbit to use for most intelligence gathering. A balloon with some motor functions can stay over an area for a much longer period.
4. Payload - Dropping a payload from a Satellite is unrealistic compared to using a balloon.
5. Economics - Balloons are the cheapest method of putting surveillance in the air and traversing long distances.
2. Higher resolution imagery
3. Longer "time on station" - Satellites that are in a low orbit only cross a specific point on earth for a brief moment every once in a while. Geostationary satellites are too high in orbit to use for most intelligence gathering. A balloon with some motor functions can stay over an area for a much longer period.
4. Payload - Dropping a payload from a Satellite is unrealistic compared to using a balloon.
5. Economics - Balloons are the cheapest method of putting surveillance in the air and traversing long distances.
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:45 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
To gauge response. Not shot down perhaps from fear of a biological weapon (jet stream spread any bio weapon element across the USA). Now with the American people chastising the administration for not shooting it down when it first entered our airspace, perhaps a follow up with a bio weapon will quickly get shot down spreading it’s chemical payload via jet stream to millions of Americans.
Quite a smart play by China with FJB’s approval.
Quite a smart play by China with FJB’s approval.
This post was edited on 2/6/23 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:46 pm to DreauxB2015
Google Earth provides 15 meter resolution, the stuff you could capture from lower altitudes using things like LiDAR are a few inches in resolution
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:47 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
Just a test. I think there was one in Brazil too.
Probably just seeing what we would do.
Probably just seeing what we would do.
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:49 pm to lazlodawg
quote:
No ground penetrating radar from their satellites, but not out of the question to put on a balloon to take a peek at nuclear installations.
GPR needs to be at-grade to detect anything below the surface. Wouldn’t work 60K ft up
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:53 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
Balloon can loiter over interesting target for long periods of time to gather microwave radio traffic between military installations that chinee military leaders want to spy on for military strength.
Posted on 2/6/23 at 1:09 pm to Marshhen
quote:
GPR needs to be at-grade to detect anything below the surface. Wouldn’t work 60K ft up
IIRC, years ago the Space Shuttle went up with some ground radar equipment with some radar topography equipment to make a world-wide topographical map. NASA announced that their radar was able to detect some ancient underground caverns or canals or the like (Egypt perhaps?). The reason why the fed govt disclosed this was to put the Soviets on notice that they now had the exact locations of all their underground missile silos because of this space radar
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:06 pm to texn
quote:
IIRC, years ago the Space Shuttle went up with some ground radar equipment with some radar topography equipment to make a world-wide topographical map. NASA announced that their radar was able to detect some ancient underground caverns or canals or the like (Egypt perhaps?). The reason why the fed govt disclosed this was to put the Soviets on notice that they now had the exact locations of all their underground missile silos because of this space radar
Are you referring to the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM) which I believe the resolution for the data over the US was 1 arc second (30 Meter Resolution), 3 arc seconds (90 Meters) for the rest of the world? I just noticed you mentioned the info being used to deter the Soviets so you must be referring to something else because SRTM data came long after the fall of the Soviets. We used to use DTED and SRTM to fill in the gaps when I was in the Army for unclass analysis
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:13 pm to texn
Remote Sensing
I was curious as to what you were referring to so I did a quick search, turns out you were correct. It was a combination of new data source, Shuttle Imaging Radar B and new analysis methodologies, Remote Sensing. I don't do as much remote sensing anymore, more on the carto side of the house now but it is pretty cool what you can use it for. I used it most in Afghanistan when we were ensuring the wells and irrigation we were using were not being used for poppy. Its been awhile but we do an aspect analysis because poppy only grew on one side of a mountain and then doing that we'd be able to easily see it pop out because of its spectral radiance. Sorry for nerding out a bit, but this sort of work fascinates me
I was curious as to what you were referring to so I did a quick search, turns out you were correct. It was a combination of new data source, Shuttle Imaging Radar B and new analysis methodologies, Remote Sensing. I don't do as much remote sensing anymore, more on the carto side of the house now but it is pretty cool what you can use it for. I used it most in Afghanistan when we were ensuring the wells and irrigation we were using were not being used for poppy. Its been awhile but we do an aspect analysis because poppy only grew on one side of a mountain and then doing that we'd be able to easily see it pop out because of its spectral radiance. Sorry for nerding out a bit, but this sort of work fascinates me
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:27 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
quote:
Somebody answer this. Why did China need a spy balloon?
Considering the source, why does anyone believe any of the details of this distraction?
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:29 pm to Flats
quote:
No, you're talking about a completely different level of resolution they could get from this balloon
We got satellites that can count the hairs on your a-hole
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:30 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
I'm sure it wasn't a video camera. Radio waves maybe? But if that's the case I don't know why they needed a balloon. No clue, but since we shot it over the ocean who knows if everything is able to be recovered so we may never know.
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:37 pm to beerJeep
quote:
We got satellites that can count the hairs on your a-hole
That may be the case, but they still can't provide the same sorts of data that devices mounted on planes, drones or even balloons can provide
This post was edited on 2/6/23 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:55 pm to concrete_tiger
quote:
EMP, Nuke, or even rolls of pennies
Lol, I see you read the old Maddox website. His article on the Gulf War and how they should take the cost of bombs and convert it to pennies that they drop from high altitude was genius. He argued you wouldn’t even have to pay reparations.
If you never saw it: Link to his page
Posted on 2/6/23 at 3:37 pm to AgSGT
quote:
same sorts of data that devices mounted on planes, drones or even balloons can provide
Data sure. But stop acting like it’s 1914 where we are sending up spy balloons to take pics of what the other dudes doing
Posted on 2/6/23 at 4:21 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
quote:
Somebody answer this. Why did China need a spy balloon?
Trial run of the EMP they will detonate and send us all back to the stone age. Seems like a pretty solid test run.
Posted on 2/6/23 at 5:42 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
Photos would be improved a bit since there is less atmosphere between the ground and the camera in a balloon. The atmosphere distorts light. Also, they may be collecting radio data or possibly doing a LIDAR or ground penetrating radar survey. 60K feet vs. low earth orbit makes a big difference for many things.
It's also a great height for EMP. They could take out Omaha (SAC), KC, St. Louis, Chicago, and Minneapolis with a single bomb/balloon (not that taking out Chicago and Minneapolis wouldn't be doing us a favor).
It's also a great height for EMP. They could take out Omaha (SAC), KC, St. Louis, Chicago, and Minneapolis with a single bomb/balloon (not that taking out Chicago and Minneapolis wouldn't be doing us a favor).
Posted on 2/6/23 at 5:43 pm to beerJeep
Our most effective way of getting LiDAR which is used here and in war zones is not collected by satellite. And we used high tech balloons in Afghanistan back in 2005, believe they were also used in Iraq
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News