re: So what exactly is the main argument against universal healthcare

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So you theory is because our current system is really expensive, a government run system couldn’t be much more expensive?

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No. My theory is that the cost argument is a pretty silly one to make when we're getting severely ripped off already

So a couple things...

1) Healthcare is what economists call a “normal good”. The defining characteristic of a normal good is that demand for the good increases when income increases. The US is the wealthiest country in the world by a huge margin, so of course our demand for healthcare is going to be the highest in the world by a huge margin, thereby pushing our expenditures to be the highest in the world by a huge margin. That reality exists regardless of what payment scheme we wish to pursue.

2) Even if our demand didn’t dwarf every other country on the basis of our income, it arguably would on the basis of our health. We eat more shitty foods in larger quantities than any other country, massively increasing the instance of heart disease and obesity-related illnesses, thereby adding further pressure to our already exceptionally high healthcare demand.

3) Even if points 1 and 2 did not exist, the US is the healthcare innovation hub of the world. We pour massive dollars into R&D which filter through to consumers. In addition, because US citizens are the first ones getting access to the results of these innovations, we end up paying the highest price because scale efficiencies have not been exploited yet when the treatments become available to our market. In effect, we pay a “first access premium” for the development of new drugs and treatments.





Which is all to say, the fact that the US is paying more than any other country for healthcare can not possibly continue to surprise or appall people. It is the result of extremely basic economic principles and will be the case no matter if the government or the citizens are the ones paying for healthcare.

It’s fair to criticize our current system for being imperfect, and there are certainly opportunities to improve it. But that’s VERY different than arguing that universal healthcare will change the reality of our healthcare system being the most expensive in the world. It won’t. Frankly, nothing will, short of a complete collapse of the US economy. Which I hope we can agree is not a viable strategy to pursue to lower the cost of healthcare.

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Our current system is by far the costliest in the world and it is certainly not the best system.

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Is the current healthcare industry a 3.2 Trillion plus a year industry? Because if it isn’t... either your assumptions are false or Elizabeth Warren is lying.

And 3.2 is extremely conservative by even Warrens estimate

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How could someone possibly be this stupid?

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I was going to ask you that.
I am close with more than one Canadian ("free healthcare" country) that live in the U.S.

This is what I've been told:
1.) You can book an appointment much quicker in America. Days instead of weeks or sometimes months in Canada.
2.) The offices in the U.S. are much nicer than in Canada.
3.) The time spent with the doctor is longer in the U.S. In Canada they are basically rushing you out the door.
4.) The doctors in the U.S. are better than the doctors in Canada. Many Canadian doctors come to the U.S. to make money. Many of the doctors left in Canada are from places like India and speak broken English.
5.) Aftercare in the hospital is more personal and of better quality in America. 4-8 patients have to share a room in Canada, just separated by hanging sheets. There is little privacy and lots of noise when you are in recovery. Also, they try to get you out of recovery as soon as possible to open a bed up for the next patient. Often, too early, which leads to other medical recovery issues.
6.) I don't know anyone in the U.S. that goes to Canada for surgery or serious medical treatment, but I know several Canadians that came to America for treatment (despite the fact that it was "free" in their own country.) Why would you want to wait 6 months for surgery to remove a tumor that might spread and kill you?

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Yeah. Just ignore the graph proving that we already have the most expensive healthcare system in the world by a wide margin

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Look at the shite show that is the VA. They can’t even get that right on a much smaller scale. Imagine the train wreck it would be on a massive scale. You want that for you and your family? frick that.

I’m open for alternatives, but I’m not putting my health care in the hands of the feds.

Just about Everything they touch they turn to shite.

I’m still waiting on you to explain why you’re comparing the US to individual tiny arse countries that depend on the US to innovate new medical procedures and medicines.

Why does the MLB make more money than a single D1 college baseball team?

He doesn’t get that cost of healthcare will soar even higher under Universal Healthcare provisions. He also ignores the fact healthcare quality would dramatically decrease under that system. The last major change doubled costs of healthcare as it is. Let’s hope Powerman never gets his way.

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Can you provide evidence of this absurd claim?

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Why do Europeans who have the means come to America for treatment?

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Why do Europeans who have the means come to America for treatment?

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Why do Brits who have the means pay for private health care?