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re: So what exactly is the main argument against universal healthcare
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:42 pm to Powerman
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:42 pm to Powerman
Nobody is defending the current system. It was better/cheaper/more accessible before Obamacare. It could be even better/cheaper/more accessible than that if insurance companies were allowed to spread risk across the entire market and limitations were placed on frivolous lawsuits.
1
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:42 pm to Powerman
quote:Youve been around here plenty long enough to see both of those claims and you chart eviscerated multiple times.
Our current system is by far the costliest in the world and it is certainly not the best system.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:42 pm to Powerman
powerman, universal healthcare wouldn’t get our spending levels down to European levels
In fact, most independent analyses show total health spending would INCREASE if we switched to Medicare for all, because of massive expansion in consumption of health services.
Can you please give me an example of a single nation that has ever cut health spending? You cite European nations, but you ignore that health spending has always been lower there
In fact, most independent analyses show total health spending would INCREASE if we switched to Medicare for all, because of massive expansion in consumption of health services.
Can you please give me an example of a single nation that has ever cut health spending? You cite European nations, but you ignore that health spending has always been lower there
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:44 pm to Powerman
The problem is that while the costs are astronomical now, they are still somewhat contained because the private insurance companies still negotiate the price down. If the government is the only payer, healthcare costs would be limitless because the consumer won't have to pay directly.
Additionally, you have the issues of receiving the care you need when you need it. Talk to people who are currently using the VA or Medicare. The wait limits are insane, and you have to see your primary care doctor before you can see anyone else. I.e., break a leg, see your primary care so you can be referred to an ortho. Need an x-ray, it could take up to a week before it's approved.
Had a marine friend roll is ankle and it took 8 days before he was approved for an x-ray, then took another 5 days before PT was approved. I blew out me knee and went straight to an ortho, had X-rays that day, PT started the next day, then had my MRI approved within 3 days.
Additionally, you have the issues of receiving the care you need when you need it. Talk to people who are currently using the VA or Medicare. The wait limits are insane, and you have to see your primary care doctor before you can see anyone else. I.e., break a leg, see your primary care so you can be referred to an ortho. Need an x-ray, it could take up to a week before it's approved.
Had a marine friend roll is ankle and it took 8 days before he was approved for an x-ray, then took another 5 days before PT was approved. I blew out me knee and went straight to an ortho, had X-rays that day, PT started the next day, then had my MRI approved within 3 days.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:44 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
That forcing higher taxes upon large segments of the population to pay for medical services for other people is not only immoral, but unconstitutional.
So we've been violating the constitution all this time? We spent 1.1 trillion dollars on healthcare in 2018.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:45 pm to Powerman
quote:
it is certainly not the best system.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:45 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Hahahaha
I notice you didn’t get in before
“Muh $52 trillion””
Tell us how it is going to be paid for since warren can’t.
People who are going to wreck the entire system are the ones with the onus of defending their stance.
I notice you didn’t get in before
“Muh $52 trillion””
Tell us how it is going to be paid for since warren can’t.
People who are going to wreck the entire system are the ones with the onus of defending their stance.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:45 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
You cite European nations,
I think you might be hallucinating. At no point did I mention anything about European nations.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:46 pm to Powerman
quote:wouod be a good idea since it’s not an apples to apples comparison, does not include private spending in government ran countries, does not include long-term care for other countries, nor does it control for population demographics. We’ve been over this like100 times.
Yeah. Just ignore the graph
Did you think this time it would “work”?
This post was edited on 11/2/19 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:46 pm to Powerman
quote:
We already have the most expensive system in the world and it's not even close
Having the Govt take over will increase cost even more.
If you think universal healthcare will be cheaper then test it first. Take California let them try. But prove to everybody universal is cheaper. Then you make your case.
This post was edited on 11/2/19 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:46 pm to Powerman
800,000 people work for health insurance companies and they vote.
There arent enough M.D.s as it is. If everyone is covered by cheaper medicare wait times increase until a.m.a accepts that we need more med schools.
If i cant get an $800k heart lung transplant because im 80, then you should be scared.
Basic questions of availability and scarcity until behemoth ama and congress adapt.
Five years.
There arent enough M.D.s as it is. If everyone is covered by cheaper medicare wait times increase until a.m.a accepts that we need more med schools.
If i cant get an $800k heart lung transplant because im 80, then you should be scared.
Basic questions of availability and scarcity until behemoth ama and congress adapt.
Five years.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:47 pm to Powerman
quote:
Powerman
Your dad should have taught you about personal responsibility.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:47 pm to Powerman
Profiteering by ama is cut deep
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:49 pm to Tesla
Medical malpractice is incredibly hard to sue for
Some of you are obsessed with trial lawyers
No pre existing conditions is more to blame for increased costs
Some of you are obsessed with trial lawyers
No pre existing conditions is more to blame for increased costs
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:50 pm to Powerman
I’m not for universal healthcare but it’s telling how bad the guys in here are failing at defending the current system of insurance
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:50 pm to Taxing Authority
His graph really doesn't mean squat. I guess it's a nicely done graph, though. So there's that. 
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:50 pm to Powerman
(no message)
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:51 pm to Powerman
quote:
I've proven this argument is essentially garbage
We already have the most expensive system in the world and it's not even close
That is one aspect in my answer to your foolish question.
Care to respond more fully?
I will not wait as I doubt you will and I am going snorkeling. Slow day for CFB.
And with Warren's plan looking like 5 trillion a year? Sounds costly to me.
This post was edited on 11/2/19 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:51 pm to NIH
quote:
defending the current system of insurance
Honestly, it's hard to defend it after Obama screwed the hell out of it.
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