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re: Sentenced to Life for an Accident Miles Away
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:24 am to wackatimesthree
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:24 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
How was Timothy McVey responsible for a bombing when he was miles away at the time?
He planned and orchestrated the bombing.
Did Baxter plan and orchestrate the cyclists deaths?
2
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:33 am to 4cubbies
quote:. No.
Did Baxter plan
quote:
and orchestrate the cyclists deaths?
His partner, whom he was linked to through criminal conspiracy (please see the link earlier for substantiation of that legal premise), did.
I said way earlier in the thread that I would be fine with these felony murder statutes being changed to manslaughter (even involuntary manslaughter) depending upon the circumstances. I agree that not all circumstances warrant a murder charge. But whether it does or not has little to do with proximity to the event, which was the point.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:34 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Did Baxter plan and orchestrate the cyclists deaths?
Irrelevant.
If a thug plans and orchestrates a robbery with no initial intent to kill, then the victim fights back, then said thug KILLS that victim, thug is responsible for that death.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:44 am to 4cubbies
quote:
So why weren’t the police charged?
That’s not how any of this works.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:47 am to Powerman
quote:
I know you guys are obsessed with punishment and suffering but try to think clearly.
Maybe you're not as reasonable as I thought.
I acknowledged that I understand (but do not agree with) your point of view on this and also acknowledged that you have a valid point.
There is just as much reason to take the opposite viewpoint. It's valid too. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't automatically mean that they aren't thinking clearly.
And btw, I don't believe in the retributive model of justice at all. But I do believe in a deterrent model of justice. If enough publicity surrounds these types of cases and would-be criminals learn that if they frick around and someone dies as a result of it, they could Find Out, it may deter some behavior.
I don't believe that the death penalty deters murder because of the type of crime it is and the mindset of the typical person who commits it. These types of felony murder crimes usually have a lot less passion wrapped up in them and a lot more opportunity to consider consequences before acting.
Plus, as I have said before, when you make the decision to place yourself outside of society's accepted norms of civil behavior to that degree and something catastrophic happens to someone because of that decision, I have no problem conceptualizing that as a crime. Call it a type of reckless endangerment if you want. Vehicular homicide per driving drunk. This isn't the only crime that involves killing someone unintentionally but being held responsible solely on the basis of your decisions before-hand and the environment and conditions those decisions caused.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Now do Trump's prosecution in GA.
My brother in Christ, go find a window to look out of for a bit. It's the Christmas season - take some time to clear your mind.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:49 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
I said way earlier in the thread that I would be fine with these felony murder statutes being changed to manslaughter (even involuntary manslaughter) depending upon the circumstances. I agree that not all circumstances warrant a murder charge. But whether it does or not has little to do with proximity to the event, which was the point.
This is within the bounds of the law. This discussion is about whether or not this is truly logical or should be considered justice.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:50 am to oogabooga68
quote:
Irrelevant
How is that irrelevant when comparing Baxter to Timothy McVeigh?
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:52 am to stout
quote:
So you think when people conspire to commit a crime, then the crime is over when only one of them is arrested?
They didn’t conspire to kill the cyclists though. Everyone involved in the prosecution agrees that was unintentional.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 11:52 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Vehicular homicide per driving drunk. This isn't the only crime that involves killing someone unintentionally
The main difference being in that case you're actually killing the person
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:09 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
If enough publicity surrounds these types of cases and would-be criminals learn that if they frick around and someone dies as a result of it, they could Find Out, it may deter some behavior.
This is an accurate mindset of so many thugs. THEY embrace a frick around and find out attitude in expecting to always feel respected, and will respond with theft or assault if they feel wronged or disrespected. But they’ll damn sure cry about the unfairness when they frick around with laws intended to promote a civil society.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:10 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:
Let’s start with the obvious. If he was really just pulling on door handles, we would not be having this conversation. Pulling on door handles is never prosecuted. No deaths would have even occurred if he was just going around double checking the security of these vehicles.
You’re right. I thought the intention was implied but you’re correct. He was looking for things to steal.
quote:
Without knowing his criminal history, we might be more influenced that he just made a bad decision while trying to engage in a relaxing activity.
His past Criminal record isn’t relevant to his felony murder charge or the burglaries though.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:11 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
If enough publicity surrounds these types of cases and would-be criminals learn that if they frick around and someone dies as a result of it, they could Find Out, it may deter some behavior.
How many criminals do you estimate have a subscription to The New Yorker?
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:12 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
This discussion is about whether or not this is truly logical or should be considered justice.
I think you should have led with this.
Go ahead and put me down for the law should be revised to permit reduced sentencing for the less culpable.
Edited: Lawmakers should prioritize offenses with mandatory minimums. The objective of the notion of fair sentencing should compel us to avoid indiscriminate sentencing practices. Less culpability should be a factor for sentencing determinations.
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:13 pm to 4cubbies
Ok, I'm in the minority. One kid did not run or resist arrest. His friend ran, that's a separate crime. While running , HE killed two people, not the kid who gave himself up. I think it's ridiculous that the kid who didn't commit the crime of fleeing from the police should be charged with the guy who did.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:15 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
They didn’t conspire to kill the cyclists though. Everyone involved in the prosecution agrees that was unintentional.
Doesn't matter what their intentions were. The result is the only relevance here.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:15 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
His past Criminal record isn’t relevant to his felony murder charge or the burglaries though.
It is not relevant to the determination of guilt. The jury did not consider his criminal history to make that determination.
But every criminal jurisdiction relies on criminal history to be factored into sentencing.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:17 pm to Adajax
quote:
I think it's ridiculous that the kid who didn't commit the crime of fleeing from the police should be charged with the guy who did.
If he hadn't of committed the first crime with the other kid, then he wouldn't be in this mess, now would he?
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:19 pm to Adajax
quote:
One kid
quote:
not the kid
quote:
the kid
He is a grown man
Posted on 12/13/23 at 12:22 pm to stout
quote:
Doesn't matter what their intentions were.
Derrick Chauvin found that out.
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 12:25 pm
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