re: Russian vs Ukraine conflict in a nutshell. It’s not always about what they tell you!

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seek to remove the President

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Yes, I agree that Ukraine had the right to seek to oust the President who proved to be too Pro-Russian, but, the methods used to change Presidents needed to be found within Ukraine's law and elections law. Does Ukraine have a Presidential Impeachment mechanism? If so, that should have been the method used.

Instead, Ukraine decided to go with Nuland and Brennan's plan to use CIA methods to oust the President. These CIA methods are probably not legal. Not only that, but, aside from getting a new President, what about the violent killing of the East Ukrainian people? To what extent did the vaunted USA help Kiev kill their own East Ukrainian people?

If Trump determines that the USA was a bad actor or in bad faith back in 2014, then Trump is more likely to be more sympathetic to Russia's case right now.

Zelensky threw his lots for the Obama/Biden version of the USA. He gambled and lost. Obama/Biden USA is finished for the time being. Too late now for Z-man to change his bets - the lots are cast - the dice are cast.

I hope we can get a good peace deal for Ukraine, but, my own personal primary concern is that I want the USA to get access to those Rare Earth minerals.

I do believe that Trump will tell Putin that Trump will never accept complete Russian destruction of the Ukrainian State, but, Russia will get many of its war aims accomplished.

Thanks for the summary. I’m sure there’s other perspectives but not a bad place to start.

Sounds like they should just divide it in half and let each side do what they want.

What about the nazis moving into Ukraine, murdering whole Russian towns and moving Germans and German sympathizers into the breadbasket? Seems like this had a lot to do with getting us where we are now, it never got corrected after the war and maybe too late now that current residents had nothing to do with any of that.

Yes, he should have been impeached under Ukraine law, not subjected to a nefarious and illegal USA secret operation to change the regime of a foreign country by violent revolution. We are supposed to be The Good Guys, not the guys who use the CIA to conduct illegal and dangerous regime change.

The USA should use the CIA to conduct regime change ONLY in very extreme cases, such as, the regime is conducting a campaign of genocide. The USA shouldn't be conducting secret illegal regime change operations for any reasons less extreme than that, i.e. don't do it just because it might be nice to have our own guy in power rather than that guy who likes Russia.

The USA must somehow re-locate its Moral Center of Gravity. We have been Globo Homo Queer USA for so long now, that we forgot all about "Truth, Justice and the American Way."

Do yourself a favor and watch this.

Ukraine On Fire - Rumble

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to change the regime of a foreign country by violent revolution

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Violent...OR unanimous vote of their Parliament

Tomato/tomato scenario

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And everyone not named SFP knows that Ukraine’s invitation to the EU was a stepping stone to NATO.

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No. Not everyone knows that. In fact, at that time, Obama was explicit in not permitting Ukraine into NATO.

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In 1932 Stalin punished western ukraine for lacking in grain production. Millions starved. The eastern Ukranians did not get punished because they were the industrial port towns and had nothing to do w grain. They did not know how bad the west got it. When WW2 happened, Western Ukraine joined the Nazis under leaderships from Steppan Bandera, to get back at USSR for the famine.

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I can't read anymore, I'm laughing too hard...




I guess we're just going to go ahead and ignore the Ukrainian–Soviet War from 1917 to 1921. Much less all of the Ukrainian independence movements since 1650.

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the EU was a stepping stone to ...

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The EU was a stepping stone to ...trade retaliation.

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FULL STOP
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Russian trade retaliation was a stepping stone to ... Yanukovych requesting EU concessions which the EU refused, and then the EU broke off talks in a hissy fit.

The EU hissy fit was a stepping stone to ... Yanukovych getting overthrown.

Yanukovych getting overthrown was a stepping stone to ... the Crimean invasion.

THE UKRAINIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH IS UNDER ATTACK.



nder the pretext of the war with Russia, Ukrainian government officials have sharply curtailed religious freedoms and attacked the rights of members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC). The victims, who are accused without evidence of aiding Russia, are demanding their guaranteed rights be respected.

LINK

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Violent...OR unanimous vote of their Parliament

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Was the vote of the Parliament the legal method for removal of the President under Ukrainian law? I don't know what the facts are, so, you can help us out here.

If removal was legal, then, that's much better. If that's the case, then we must review the role of the CIA in influencing the Parliament to vote to oust the President.

I really do hope that Trump and his team take a very thorough look at all of these events that led to Russia's illegal invasion. There were provocations. Trump's team should evaluate the provocations and prepare to acknowledge the unjustified provocations.

The US's and Ukraine's fault in this whole matter is a question of degrees. We know that there were some CIA provocations. We don't know the degree or extent of these. I hope Trump's team can examine these issues and then assess how what we have done might determine what kind of Peace Terms we can agree upon.

Trump should make it clear to Putin that at no time ever has Russia been in any danger of being invaded by Ukraine or Europeans or the USA, so, his invasion was at its core, illegal.