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Message
1
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:00 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
You have always had the choice
false
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:04 pm to KeyserSoze999
There are two basic factors at play with sexuality: physiological attraction (arousal and willingness/desire) and sexual capability (the ability to physically participate).
Arousal and desire can and do change over time due to various other factors other than anatomy. Many women get "turned on" (sexually aroused) by men due to factors unrelated to physical appearance. Strength, confidence, humor, financial stability, the ability to make 'dank memes', and other such characteristics can and do make men more or less attractive to women regardless of what they look like.
I've personally had attraction towards women that turned into repulsion after hearing them talk or express opinions that I didn't like. I've met some beautiful women that had bad odor which turned me off.
Familiarity also changes sexual attraction. Getting to know someone better can increase or decrease your desire to want to have sex with someone. Many marriages break down over time because one or both partners are too used to the other and don't have that same sexual desire that they used to have that they desperately want.
The other factor is sexual capability. Can a person physically be aroused by someone of either sex? The answer is undeniably "yes". All it requires is stimulation of your sex organs when it's all boiled down. It's why so many people in prison have consensual (and forced) sex with other prisoners with the same anatomy even if they wouldn't consider themselves homosexuals; they're just looking to "get off". If you can use warm fruit or a silicone sex toy, you can use another person, regardless of their sex/gender.
In that sense, anyone can have sex with anyone else. Physically, at least. The only obstacle to it would be the desire, and it's been shown that different factors influence desire or willingness.
It's far more complicated than just "I like girls" and "I like boys".
Arousal and desire can and do change over time due to various other factors other than anatomy. Many women get "turned on" (sexually aroused) by men due to factors unrelated to physical appearance. Strength, confidence, humor, financial stability, the ability to make 'dank memes', and other such characteristics can and do make men more or less attractive to women regardless of what they look like.
I've personally had attraction towards women that turned into repulsion after hearing them talk or express opinions that I didn't like. I've met some beautiful women that had bad odor which turned me off.
Familiarity also changes sexual attraction. Getting to know someone better can increase or decrease your desire to want to have sex with someone. Many marriages break down over time because one or both partners are too used to the other and don't have that same sexual desire that they used to have that they desperately want.
The other factor is sexual capability. Can a person physically be aroused by someone of either sex? The answer is undeniably "yes". All it requires is stimulation of your sex organs when it's all boiled down. It's why so many people in prison have consensual (and forced) sex with other prisoners with the same anatomy even if they wouldn't consider themselves homosexuals; they're just looking to "get off". If you can use warm fruit or a silicone sex toy, you can use another person, regardless of their sex/gender.
In that sense, anyone can have sex with anyone else. Physically, at least. The only obstacle to it would be the desire, and it's been shown that different factors influence desire or willingness.
It's far more complicated than just "I like girls" and "I like boys".
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:04 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
JUSTICE KENNEDY: It's not their identity; it's what they're doing.
MR. COLE: Yeah.
His point being he’s not refusing to bake them a cake because they’re gay. He is refusing to bake them a custom wedding cake because he does not wish to participate in the event. Anyone that’s every been to a wedding, been in a wedding or gotten married knows that the cake designer is as much a participant in the event as the flower girls, the wedding planner or anyone else. The baker in this case is not some faceless entity that throws a cake together, drops it off and then peaces out. His argument is that he doesnt want to be part of the event because it is counter to his beliefs. The courts are now deciding whether or not a person can be compelled to participate despite their beliefs.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:05 pm to KeyserSoze999
I heard the same clip and interpreted it differently.
It sounded to me like he was saying the baker didn't refuse to bake a custom cake because they were gay (identity) but because of their action (gay wedding).
They were free to purchase anything else from the bakery he was just not going to make a custom cake for the wedding.
ETA: I see this has been addressed.
It sounded to me like he was saying the baker didn't refuse to bake a custom cake because they were gay (identity) but because of their action (gay wedding).
They were free to purchase anything else from the bakery he was just not going to make a custom cake for the wedding.
ETA: I see this has been addressed.
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:06 pm to GumboPot
quote:No, no heterosexual isn’t an identity. An identity only needs declared when you are choosing to be something you genetically are not
Then the opposite is true. Being hetero itself is a choice, whether you act on it or not, but it is not an identity.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:06 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
The courts are now deciding whether or not a person can be compelled to participate despite their beliefs.
And when will they decide?
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:12 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
Anyone that’s every been to a wedding, been in a wedding or gotten married knows that the cake designer is as much a participant in the event as the flower girls, the wedding planner or anyone else. The baker in this case is not some faceless entity that throws a cake together, drops it off and then peaces out.
Having seen a video of this particular baker's cake designs it is clear he is a artist, and as you have said the couple were trying to purchase his artistic input for their wedding, not just buying a cake.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:19 pm to KeyserSoze999
One zillion pages later...
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:28 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
His point being he’s not refusing to bake them a cake because they’re gay. He is refusing to bake them a custom wedding cake because he does not wish to participate in the event.
Everyone keeps saying this, but is that actually the case?
quote:
JUSTICE GINSBURG: Would that be true -- would that be true if what the message -
the message, let's say Craig and Mullins said
we would like to have on this wedding cake of
ours these words: "God bless the union of
Craig and Mullins."
MR. COLE: So if he would not put that
message on any other cake, then he doesn't have
to put it on that cake.
JUSTICE GINSBURG: He would put -
MR. COLE: If he -
JUSTICE GINSBURG: -- that message on
a cake that said: God bless the union of Ruth
and Marty.
MR. COLE: Right. If he would -- if
he would say that, then he would have to say
God bless the union of Dave and Craig because
the only difference between those two cakes,
Your Honor, is the identity of the customer who
is seeking to purchase it.
It is the same cake otherwise. So -
so, yes, if he -- but, again, in this case -
JUSTICE KAGAN: Do we have to answer
that question, Mr. Cole?
MR. COLE: No, you don't, no, Justice
Kagan, you don't, because in this case, again,
the only thing the baker knew about these customers was that they were gay. And, as a
result, he refused to sell them any wedding
cake.
There was no request for a design.
There was no request for a message. He refused
to sell them any wedding cake. And that's
identity-based discrimination. It is not a
decision to refuse to put particular words on
it.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:31 pm to Salmon
quote:
false
Im not sure whats false about it
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:33 pm to SDVTiger
You actively chose your sexuality?
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:35 pm to Salmon
Every day of my life I make the conscious decision to not suck a dick that day.
Got a nice little 30 year streak going for myself
Got a nice little 30 year streak going for myself
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:36 pm to EA6B
quote:
Having seen a video of this particular baker's cake designs it is clear he is a artist, and as you have said the couple were trying to purchase his artistic input for their wedding, not just buying a cake.
He was not denying them service. He denied them special accommodations.
And that is what the case is about: Special Accommodations.
He's being sued for NOT going above and beyond to put forth a special effort.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:37 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Everyone keeps saying this, but is that actually the case?
Yes. As far as I know...every Wedding Cake is custom. They don't have a three tiered wedding cake just sitting out waiting to be bought.
So, regular old cakes...they have them ready for purchase and you can walk in a buy.
Wedding Cake...they make for the occasion. Even if not "custom words" or such. The cake itself is made FOR the wedding.
They are ordered weeks in advance, etc
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:37 pm to Salmon
quote:
You actively chose your sexuality?
Lesbians do. Hell, the mayor of NYC's wife is a lesbian with children. I've worked with at least 10 lesbians who had children when they chose to be hetero.
Now, menz is a different thing. They born that way.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:42 pm to Sidicous
quote:
He was not denying them service. He denied them special accommodations.
And that is what the case is about: Special Accommodations.
He's being sued for NOT going above and beyond to put forth a special effort.
Is it "Special Accommodations" when it's 40% of your business? Are you going "above and beyond" when it represents 40% of your business?
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:44 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
s it "Special Accommodations" when it's 40% of your business? Are you going "above and beyond" when it represents 40% of your business?
I don't think percentages should matter. If a wedding planner happens to be a devout Christian and opposes gay marriage on that ground, I believe said planner should be able to decline the job.
Even if 100% of the business is in "weddings"
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:45 pm to Salmon
quote:
You actively chose your sexuality?
Not sure why you think you didnt have the choice to change teams
Posted on 12/7/17 at 3:46 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
Not sure why you think you didnt have the choice to change teams
all that to set up a gay joke? kinda disappointed
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 3:47 pm
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