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Researchers cut chloroquine study short over safety concerns -- MSM celebrates
Posted on 4/24/20 at 10:54 am
Posted on 4/24/20 at 10:54 am
This just broke on CNBC. Reporters breathlessly discussing it seemed quite pleased with themselves.
The rest of the story follows below this . . .
First off, the study was not "discontinued". Patients in the high dose group were converted to low dose. The study continues.
The study involved tests of high dose vs low dose chloroquine used for treatment of CV19 patients. The high dose of 600mg twice a day was chosen because it HAS BEEN PROVEN SAFE in several previous studies ( LINK1, LINK2, LINK3). However, it was administered with azithromycin in this study "because the hospital required it." Azithromycin significantly increases CQ side effects.
Predicted lethality d/t CV19 infection in the study group was 20%.
Of 41 high dose patients, 16 died (39%). None died from the dreaded Chloroquine-induced torsades de pointes, but increased QTIs were observed. Nonetheless, the nearly double lethality rate (39% vs 20%) was statistically significant.
So remaining high dose patients were switched to the low dose group. Meanwhile, the low dose group is experiencing a 25% reduction in predicted lethality. 15% vs 20% predicted. Not quite statistically significant yet. But it will be if it persists. The study is about 1/5th complete.
The rest of the story follows below this . . .
quote:
Researchers cut chloroquine study short over safety concerns, citing a ‘primary outcome’ of death
by Berkeley Lovelace Jr.
Apr 24 2020
Citing a “primary outcome” of death, researchers cut short a study testing anti-malaria drug chloroquine as a potential treatment for Covid-19 after some patients developed irregular heart rates and nearly two dozen of them died after taking doses of the drug daily.
Scientists say the findings, published Friday in the peer-reviewed Journal of the American Medical Association, should prompt some degree of skepticism from the public toward enthusiastic claims about and perhaps “serve to curb the exuberant use” of the drug, which has been touted by President Donald Trump as a potential “game-changer” in the fight against the coronavirus.
LINK
First off, the study was not "discontinued". Patients in the high dose group were converted to low dose. The study continues.
The study involved tests of high dose vs low dose chloroquine used for treatment of CV19 patients. The high dose of 600mg twice a day was chosen because it HAS BEEN PROVEN SAFE in several previous studies ( LINK1, LINK2, LINK3). However, it was administered with azithromycin in this study "because the hospital required it." Azithromycin significantly increases CQ side effects.
Predicted lethality d/t CV19 infection in the study group was 20%.
Of 41 high dose patients, 16 died (39%). None died from the dreaded Chloroquine-induced torsades de pointes, but increased QTIs were observed. Nonetheless, the nearly double lethality rate (39% vs 20%) was statistically significant.
So remaining high dose patients were switched to the low dose group. Meanwhile, the low dose group is experiencing a 25% reduction in predicted lethality. 15% vs 20% predicted. Not quite statistically significant yet. But it will be if it persists. The study is about 1/5th complete.
This post was edited on 4/24/20 at 12:16 pm
17
Posted on 4/24/20 at 10:57 am to NC_Tigah
We all knew it was a long shot but it was worth a try at least. Nobody here was claiming it was some miracle cure-all. The MSM yet again celebrating something for no reason at all.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 10:57 am to NC_Tigah
I mean ventilators don't work but are we lambasting every doctor, bureaucrat and politician who *touted* (fake-cried and pleaded for) more muh 10 billion ventilators?
Posted on 4/24/20 at 10:58 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
. Meanwhile, the low dose group is experiencing a 25% reduction in predicted lethality. 15% vs 20% predicted. Not quite statistically significant yet. But it will be if it persists. The study is about 1/5th complete.
Hey, wait a minute. I said Trump is stupid for being optimistic about a drug that could treat CV symptoms. How am i supposed to be outraged by some positive news about something Trump was optimistic about?
This post was edited on 4/24/20 at 11:00 am
Posted on 4/24/20 at 10:59 am to BarnHater
quote:Know how I know you didn't read NC's entire post?
We all knew it was a long shot but it was worth a try at least.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 10:59 am to NC_Tigah
I just don’t know how to cut through all the crap anymore. OMB at all costs.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:00 am to BarnHater
Read again.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:00 am to McLemore
quote:They save ~ 1-in-5 patients.
I mean ventilators don't work
If the OP study numbers hold, chloroquine at 450mg bid reduces lethality 25%.
This post was edited on 4/24/20 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:06 am to NC_Tigah
Yup. (I was being very general/hyperbolic, speaking of which, have we discussed hypobaric treatment yet?)
Edit: mean hyperbaric. COVID has definitely gotten in my brains
Edit: mean hyperbaric. COVID has definitely gotten in my brains
This post was edited on 4/24/20 at 11:13 am
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:07 am to NC_Tigah
I swear, the people running these tests are either morons or they are purposefully skewing the results.
Just from reading and listening there seems to be things I am aware of that they should be taking into account.
The VA study - we already knew that these drugs worked well when there was early intervention but were probably ineffective when used on the severely ill.
This study - everyone knows that the potential side effects include cardiac issues and obviously if you give higher doses side effects are more common.
People want to pretend that the reason the drugs are being heralded is so that some want to get rich. Would you really choose a drug that is off patent for that? More likely you would shite on the generic in favor of a new drug.
Just from reading and listening there seems to be things I am aware of that they should be taking into account.
The VA study - we already knew that these drugs worked well when there was early intervention but were probably ineffective when used on the severely ill.
This study - everyone knows that the potential side effects include cardiac issues and obviously if you give higher doses side effects are more common.
People want to pretend that the reason the drugs are being heralded is so that some want to get rich. Would you really choose a drug that is off patent for that? More likely you would shite on the generic in favor of a new drug.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:08 am to NC_Tigah
How doe the media explain the safe daily use (~400 mg/day) of Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus and arthritis patients? A lot of these patients have been taking the drug for decades. Apparently it's really safe at these dosages.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:09 am to SOKAL
quote:No reason it can’t be both. And both are expected when dealing with academics.
I swear, the people running these tests are either morons or they are purposefully skewing the results.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:12 am to loogaroo
quote:
I just don’t know how to cut through all the crap anymore. OMB at all costs.
This is literally all that matters. Everything he says, they MUST prove him wrong, no matter what. He was optimistic for this drug, it automatically becomes a polarizing issue. The MSM wants it to not work to punish him. It doesn't matter if it could save lives.
Just look at how they are covering the statements from yesterday. Anyone with half a brain know he wasn't suggesting anyone inject themselves with Lysol or drink bleach but that is all the media can talk about today. Every doctor has to come out and call it crazy, the MSM media is just begging for someone to do it so they can hang it on trump. Beating him is all that matters.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:16 am to NC_Tigah
quote:So to confirm, it was a bit premature to crown this drug and say we should just start to give it to every COVID patient?
First off, the study was not "discontinued". Patients in the high dose group were converted to low dose. The study continues.
The study involved tests of high dose vs low dose Hydroxychloroquine used for treatment of CV19 patients. The high dose of 600mg twice a day was chosen because it HAS BEEN PROVEN SAFE in several previous studies ( LINK1, LINK2, LINK3). However, it was administered with azithromycin in this study "because the hospital required it." Azithromycin significantly increases HC side effects.
Predicted lethality d/t CV19 infection in the study group was 20%.
Of 41 high dose patients, 16 died (39%). None died from the dreaded Chloroquine-induced torsades de pointes, but increased QTIs were observed. Nonetheless, the nearly double lethality rate (39% vs 20%) was statistically significant.
So remaining high dose patients were switched to the low dose group. Meanwhile, the low dose group is experiencing a 25% reduction in predicted lethality. 15% vs 20% predicted. Not quite statistically significant yet. But it will be if it persists. The study is about 1/5th complete.
Is that what you're stating?
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:20 am to NC_Tigah
quote:When that happens does it lead to an R on T phenomenon followed by V Fib as the actual cause of death?
but increased QTIs were observed. Nonetheless, the nearly double lethality rate (39% vs 20%) was statistically significant.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:23 am to Diamondawg
When are we going to get the results of HCQ use in these hospitals across the country? Damn this study.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:24 am to Shaft Williams
I think the study is a lie because our military takes HCQ for to prevent malaria infections. We wouldn't give our military a medicine that would kill them.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:36 am to McLemore
quote:Couple of weeks ago. You can do a search
Yup. (I was being very general/hyperbolic, speaking of which, have we discussed hypobaric treatment yet?)
Edit: mean hyperbaric. COVID has definitely gotten in my brains
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:39 am to Shaft Williams
quote:I have been to Honduras several times on mission trips and they fed us anti-malaria drugs like they were tic-taks. Can't say they were HCQ or just the chloroquin or some other drug but baseline EKGs were never done. That much I do know.
We wouldn't give our military a medicine that would kill them.
Posted on 4/24/20 at 11:41 am to NC_Tigah
It's been so bizarre to watch the people who spend all their time telling us how much they're devoted to protecting people consistently shite on everything that could be effective at fighting this virus.
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